And it comes in the face of the Elections BC denial of Ida Chong’s recall paperwork…
An enterprising individual has. Speaking from experience in researching government documents,this is not something new. Be sure to read the comments for additional evidence of a new PDF file being created. From that site :
Looking at the google cache for the Elections BC website you can clearly see that the “Number of words in proponent statement” does not appear on the website on November 23rd:
November 23, 2010
The page, as it appears on November 25, 2010, contains the “Number of words in proponent statement” clause:
The “Number of words on proponent statement” link was certainly added after November 23, 2010.
See the evidence for yourself, at this link:
While this does not indicate the 200 word limit rule was not included in another information link, it does indicate that Elections BC felt a specific clarification was needed on this issuem most likely to avoid any further challenges.
Methinks an investigation is required, sooner than later.
**** thanks to RossK for the following screen shots, as he details below!
37 thoughts on “Something wicked this way comes…”
Globe and Mail is on the story, in this mornings paper! :
“Fight HST submitted its application on Monday. The document outlining the changes was uploaded to the Elections BC website on Wednesday afternoon. A cached view of the site shows it wasn’t part of the recall petition application package as recently as Tuesday.
Elections BC said Craig James, the province’s chief electoral officer, was unavailable for comment on Thursday. But a spokeswoman said Fight HST organizers were told after the application was rejected that the new rules would be put on the website this week.
When asked why organizers wouldn’t be made aware of the new rules until after their application was submitted, she said: “Before the application had been submitted, there had been no need for a policy. No recall application in the past had ever come close to the 200-word limit. It hadn’t been an issue.”
When asked if an unforeseen problem could arise when Fight HST resubmits its application, the spokeswoman said Elections BC follows provincial legislation in all its decisions. She declined to comment on whether instituting such rules after the fact reflects negatively on the non-partisan, independent office.”
Yes… the most famous two words in the world : No Comment.
Me, I have screen shot, from deep into the EBC index pages that states that the ‘Word Count Proponent Statement’ file was modified on…
Nov 24, 2010 at 16:51hrs.
And now Laila does too.
(has those screen shots, I mean)
Whadd’ya know….Looks likes the Globe has ’em now too.
Well, well, well. Aren’t the rats becoming a little more organised?
I think they may break the record. They won’t get any seats come the next election.
Dont count on that. I’ve been hearing a lot of support for George Abbott, even from NDP’ers who- get this- say he has a good chance.
I hate to say it, but unless the NDP get their act together, it will still be a fight in some areas. That recall is going to be more important than some people are counting on. This is certainly not the time to be resting on the alleged laurels of Moe Sihota and banking on his non-existant magic powers of party renewal.
It is very suspicious that the information about the word count gets added after they disqualify the application on that basis, but the authorities will just make some claim, it was always a rule and ignorance is no excuse. A very convenient technicality for the Liberals.
My brother just sent me this, he doesn’t pay to much attention to the politics of BC, let alone the speeches of a recently announced contender for the Premier’s job….. where George Abbott likened his BC Liberal Party’s fortune by saying this:
“We’re at a pretty low point in the ditch of public opinion,” he said. “I hope the next bump we feel is coming out of the ditch and back onto the road.”
Whereas the most popular Premier in Canada is from Newfoundland and this is what they’re saying:
98% OF CANADIANS SAY “OH SHIT” BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A SLIPPERY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM NEWFOUNDLAND AND THEY SAY, “HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS.”
I think we need to start a campaign to recall Craig James.
But on the subject of recall, I don’t think the NDP has thought it through. Recalling Liberal MLAs could work against them, if enough are recalled.
When Campbell announced that a vote of 50% plus one would result in him “cancelling” the HST, he didn’t tell us how exactly he planned on accomplishing that. From what I understand, the agreement only allows for negotiations to be re-opened after the tax has been in place for five years. That’s why Carole James has said, if elected, they would serve notice to the federal government that they intend to do that. She hasn’t said they would scrap the tax, since she knows there is no mechanism in the agreement that would allow for that to happen.
The Liberals currently hold a nine seat majority. If five Liberal MLAs are recalled (or a few more rats abandon the ship as a result of a successful campaign against Ida Chong), Carole James could become premiere before the HST referendum. That will put her in the position of having to either find some way of convincing the Harper government to cancel the HST – which the agreement does not allow for – or convince voters that Campbell would not have been able to live up to that commitment either.
As I’ve posted elsewhere, how anxious do you think Steven Harper will be to cancel the HST because the new socialist premiere from British Columbia asked him to? He won’t even take calls from her, let alone re-open negotiations three and a half years early.
So presto, the HST becomes the NDP’s problem, along with the spiraling deficit, the underfunded school boards, the gutted social services etc. Every group that has been harmed by the Campbell Liberals over the last nine years will be demanding that the NDP restore their funding, which they will of course not be able to do.
Fast forward to 2013 (or sooner), the NDP will be lower in the polls than the Liberals are now because we’ll still have the HST, still have no money for schools, the roof on BC Place will be leaking and the NDP will still be acting like a two-headed snake fighting itself over food. The newly rejuvenated BC LIberals, led by that popular, likable fellow George Abbott, (and supported by the “Shadow PAB” at the Sun, Province, Global and CKNW) ride to an easy victory and it’s back to business as usual.
What these people are forgetting here is one strong and relevant fact, that 700,000 citizens and taxpayers in this province took time from their busy lives to make a statement to this Government by signing the HST petition, that is a lot of angry people. The real number is probably double by now.
In all their wisdom they now choose to play games with us.Let me assure them that these are not games!
They are fools to anger people further!
For the record, NVG located an old version of the recall guidebook, and it clearly states the following, in more than one location of the guide:
” A complete application consists of the fully completed and signed application
form, a non-refundable $50 processing fee and a statement of not more than
200 words of why, in the opinion of the applicant, the Member should be
recalled. The Chief Electoral Officer does not assess the reasons provided by
the applicant, and does not have authority to refuse to issue a petition on a basis
that the reasons may be frivolous. ”
However, this version does not have the clarification on what constitutes a word. Clearly, Elections BC is covering their asses on the rejection now, and with good reason. There are generally accepted acronyms, that for ease, are rarely if ever, counted as seperate words. For example, PDF file format. One would generally recognise PDF as a “word”.
This is exactly like what the government is doing and has relied on the dispute and deny and outright lie about the shadow tolls. Semantics, deny everything, admit nothing and claim everything.
The Liberals count on technicalities and semantics for everything. Wordsmiths of the worst kind. And for the record as well, my buddy has caught them changing and updating files even today, so who knows what else they are up to? I have the screen shots and will show them shortly. As of this morning, changes have been made to files that make it look like they were changed at a time that had not even occurred yet…. how weird is that ?
And ick… this just in….
The Vancouver Twitterverse is now hanging on every BC Liberal leadership-related tweet and it was rewarded this morning with a tweet from the @DraftChristy camp.
Good God. Ms. Clark is like political herpes. She never goes away, and pops up when you least want her to.
“Good God. Ms. Clark is like political herpes. She never goes away, and pops up when you least want her to.”
Laila I think I love you!
Re: Chrissy Chuck Chuck !
FOTFLMAO – Good one Lalila 🙂
Just heard Christy on NW. Didn’t say anything about “taking a break” (and giving us one) from her radio show. Apparently she’s going to give us more “balanced” coverage of the fight HST campaign by interviewing a citizen who was tricked (!) in to signing the petition more than once by his (NDP?) MLA. Ooh, can’t wait, maybe she’ll use her outrage at this travesty as a reason to announce her candidacy.
Just calling it like I see it, but glad you all like the comparison..lol. Only think is I think you can take medication to ward off herpes outbreaks, but there’s nothing that can get rid of Christy, unless someone can quickly get to the depth of her brothers involvement in the sale of BC rail….
I was told she is taking next week off,and the people who are trying to draft her think this might be a good sign.
Terminal city girl, glad you got a chuckle – laughter is the best medicine!
From the Interpretation Act
“words” includes figures, punctuation marks, and typographical, monetary and mathematical symbols;
not what one would normally consider words but Legalese is a foreign language so if one wants to play their game by their rules one had better learn the language.
I can’t help but feel this all part of a plan to destroy the BCLibs and have a “new party” emerge.
Over the last 60 years a similar scenario has been played out twice before.
In the late 40’s early 50’s the CCF (forerunner to the NDP) was poised to form the government.
Bill Bennett senior crossed the floor from the then governing Conservatives (actually a coalition with the then Liberals) to form hijack the Social Credit party – which never was a true Social Credit party after Bennett and cronies arrived. The BC Socreds hung on until the early 1990’s when they were destroyed by Bill Vander Zalm. Bill previously was a Liberal and the party Socred party Faithful stampeded to the reformed Liberal Party, this time the transition and instilling fear of the NDP did not work so well and the former Socred Party or a better name for them is the Me First Party had till wait until 2001 to retake power. Once again the Me Firsters have out lived their time and appear to be planning to rush for another party that they can advertise is a new party and not like the BCLibs.
I note it is interesting that Bill Vander Zalm “destroyed” the Socreds but it is almost believable that they have given him a chance to redeem his reputation by starting the HST campaign.
I can think of no other reason for why a normally political astute premier to have mad so many colossal political blunders in the last 2 years unless it is to re-morph his gang into a new party in theory not encumbered by all the recent political baggage
Maybe it is just a simple as Campbell starting to suffer some sort of mental malaise – he does show the classical sysptoms of a psycopath and has always been arrogant and cocky – never a moment of conscience except when trying to hide behind his family for protection.
Na, I think Campbell is a real headcase, and like most in that situation, have learnt over the years to mask their condition until finally getting recognized for what they are!!!!!!
Pinocchio Gordon “the liar” Campbell’s time has come.
You are definitely correct on the psychopath diagnosis but the “blunders” still seem a little too staged and at regular intervals for it to be a product of a deranged mind
You’re right Glenn; too orchestrated, too timely, too exacted. Not Campbell’s style. Whose then?
Not Martyn’s, he’s gone…and Taylor is too new, these “blunders” have been going on for a long time now. Who is the one person he listens to more than any other? And who has the degree in International Politics? A degree that would be ever so handy in these turbulent times…with the sell-off of resources to foreign countries…HST to match VAT…aligning Canada more every day with the Euro Union? Politics in BC has become very “international” indeed. Handy that.
There is no question that Campbell had help, instructions, guidelines what have you. I think as others do, that Campbell has had his instructions and has almost delivered – but something has gone wrong. Given Campbells facial expressions, his comments and his actions of late – it seems like there is a dis-connect somewhere. Just not quite making it and doing the wrong thing – which has caused him a lot of embarrassment and the public a lot of deserved anger.
It is what we don’t yet kow that bothers and worries me. Maybe I am being too cynical – but given Pinocchio’s performance since 2001 and prior, he is/was capable of anything – given that he has no visible conscience and certainly does not talk like he has one.
Time will tell – but the next few months are going to stuff that books are written about and films made of.
Leah, forgive me but are you talking about Craig James and his connections to the World Bank or Lara Dauphinee and her, um, advice?
Back off! I was there first and I KNOW that I do.
that is funny
I don’t know if this is the appropriate blog to bring it up, but in spite of all the nefarious machinations about/towards Governor Gord, isn’t it all about the TIMING of the HST? We used to pay 12% on everything but haircuts and restaurant meals, and even though I didn’t sign an anti HST petition, I would have, but ONLY on the grounds that (I believe) he LIED . I think that the HST is necessary to cover all his tax cuts, as well as the school, health, and transportation facilities we demand. Oh, and the raises to to the MLA’s. Think, for a moment, what you expect your taxes to cover!
Anyway, I urge you to direct your angst not toward the HST but to the BC Rail public inquiry. That will salve all your fervor. Unfortunately.
BC rail public inquiry, HST, run of the rivers, BC rail trial, selling off of public assets,P3 deals etc. etc.
There are many places to place our angst.
None will solve the fervor.
We have been raped on so many levels by this government, our justice system is in a shambles, our assets are depleted, our province is being decimated environmentally and this is only what we know!
Multi million dollar salaries, child poverty need I go on?
As I see it Mr. Campbell’s neglect to see something such as the anti HST campaign coming along to bite him in the ass and it’s timing with the Bc rail trial fiasco and other events was his fatal mistake. He got all the public’s attention with the HST and now their attention is on much more!
Laila, I hope it’s ok with you…I have to give a heads up to everyone regarding Mary’s latest article at her Legislature Raids site. It’s a doozy.
“Elections BC admits rules changed after recall application filed” – Vancouver Sun http://www.vancouversun.com/Elections+admits+rules+changed+after+recall+application+filed/3893228/story.html
“…………..Recall organizers have been asking why Elections BC officials did not tell them their application was over the word limit so they could change it on the spot.
It turns out that is because the policy was not defined at the time.
“The 200-word limit is in the legislation; it’s always been there,” Poilievre said. “The methodology used for word counts had never been an issue in the past because all previous recall applications had come in at well below 200 words.””
Ok, John, I feel the love, I feel it… no fighting please..lol. back at you! And yes, no one should forget BC rail, this is why BC Mary and others keep on it. Remember too, that a lot of the work I am doing completely relates to the BC rail sale because of the same players, same time period, and of course, the same kind of corruption. The only reason BC rail was sold was to fund the sea to sky project and other initiatives needed for the 2010 bid. If we can uncover all the other misdeeds committed from this, perhaps it will assist in supporting a public inquiry. There is a lot of deception that occurred during those years of the MOT, deception that is still ongoing!
Of course, Leah, always feel free to share so we don’t miss out!!! I just read it and everyone should go and read it at http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/
something wicked this way will come [Ray Bradbury] .Laila do you think Cristy is one of the sirens of Titan? Can we hang them from the hallo-een tree? Good work lady!Thanks S.
Welllll, istvan, correct me if I am wrong but weren’t sirens were alluring, attractive creatures ? IMHO the only thing siren-like about Christy is her voice when she gets excited or provoked on the air…lol.
Thanks for the kind words, always a treat!
We all know the BC Lieberals make up the rules as they go along. Now the rest of the country knows it as well!
Successful 1997 Skeena Recall petition word count using ‘MLA’ (twice) = 194
Successful 1997 Skeena Recall petition word count using ‘Member of the Legislative Assembly’ (twice) = 202.
Analysis can be found here.
Seeing as how Elections BC has absolutely nailed counting words, like jelly to a wall ……..
RossK’s comment 2 above deserves repeating.
There is already a precedent the other way!!!
Time to spread the word people………………………
There is something inherently wrong when the leader of the Liberal party, Gordon Campbell, can and does appoint the chief electoral officer, a position that by it’s nature must be nonpartisan
The same thing is inherently wrong when special prosecutors are appointed in the same manner.
The public deserves more!
RossK’s article mentioned above is very interesting and clearly shows things are not as they should be in the electoral office and what applies to one does’nt apply to another and the rules as they are called are useless to a public who’s money is being once again totally wasted..
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