When asked by Philip Till what the leaders needed to do in the last bit of the campaign on his show recently, I said Dix needed to get on his game and get aggressive if he wanted to win.In fact,I even remarked that I would have run the NDP campaign aggressively from day 1 and that aggressive doesn’t have to mean being nasty. Look at the definition.
1.characterized by or tending toward unprovoked offensives, attacks, invasions, or the like; militantly forward or menacing
2.making an all-out effort to win or succeed; competitive.
3.vigorously energetic, especially in the use of initiative and forcefulness
4.boldly assertive and forward; pushy:
Oddly enough,I had heard several pundits saying what a great campaign the NDP have been running prior to last night, when suddenly the truthful commentary started coming out that the campaign was poorly constructed, with which I have agreed and commented on several times, including in a column for 24Hrs Vancouver
The BC liberals have always had well-oiled, strategic campaigns,regardless of leadership.While no one could check Clark’s mouth or actions as well as they might have liked to, in the end it didn’t matter that she campaigned on outright fallacies, because the Dix camp was slowly killing themselves over in the corner being cautious and trying out a new way to do politics that clearly doesn’t work. They were not able to deliver a consistant,simple message to the voters over and over again on why they should vote for them, and not the Liberals.
Am I angry? Yes.
I’m the first to say I’m a complete newbie when it comes to running a campaign.I worked with independent Ross Buchanan in the Surrey election,and he was trounced, but I managed to get an unknown candidate with absolutely no name recognition some very good coverage in the major papers and radio time with very little money.And guess what? When you say the name Ross Buchanan in Surrey now, people know who he is. They know he took on the mayor on a fact based campaign that was as aggressive as we could make it. Yes we lost,but one man who was completely unknown now has name recognition.People know what he stands for, no question about it. I would rather lose having fought a damn good fight and be proud of it, than lose by sitting back and opening the door for the enemy to come in and kill off your soldiers one by one. Which is kind of what happened in this election.
Here’s what I saw going wrong, for what it is worth.
There were two media interviews where Dix completely lost his composure when dealing with reporters. It was bad. If you can’t deal with aggressive reporters asking questions it conveys a bad message to those watching. Doesn’t matter if he doesn’t have much experience with that, he should have been coached and he should have practiced because he did not know how to deal with it well.
The Kinder Morgan announcement was a killer for many – I would equate it to handing over a loaded weapon to your enemy. Didn’t matter when or if he actually made the decision earlier,fact is he didn’t share that with many people or the public so it came across as completely an election ploy to everyone who is not a die-hard NDP voter.
It is also an unfortunate reality that Dix did come with a lot of baggage via the memo, Moe Sihota and “the horrible 90’s”. I cringed when he said “I was 35..” Seriously. 35 is not 19. Many people are married at 35, have kids, a mortgage etc, 35 is responsibility time, not excuse time. He should have simply stated he made a mistake and took responsibility.. and I would have added… “which is a lot more than the Liberals have done for all their mistakes.” Christy Clark refused to acknowledge her inaccurate statements during her campaign,even when the media proved they were wrong! Why give them ammunition? I just don’t get it.
Another thing that struck me was that in the effort to run a positive campaign,many NDP supporters were actually told to quiet down on social media. Big mistake. Huge mistake. They left themselves floundering and flailing as Bill Tieleman pointed out in his column today.
Dix backed himself into a corner with this entire positive,nice-nice, err on cautious theme. The Liberals provided so many moments for the NDP to gain real ground factually but again, the complacency for most of the campaign was stunning. And when Dix did begin fighting back it was just too late and it was then looking extremely hypocritical. Much like doing the ad buy of the 24hrs cover looked after mocking the Liberals for doing the same thing.
In hindsight, I suspect the NDP are kicking themselves for trying a” new way of doing politics” in such an important election. It didn’t work, and in fact as one of the fathers at my son’s school commented this morning “Dix didnt seem to want to fight for us, why would I vote for that? They couldn’t get it together! I want someone whose going to get tough when things get rough. Horgan would have done it.I’ll take my chances.”
Risky Dix? More like No-risk Dix to me. There is a good reason they call the heart of a campaign office ‘the war room’… a campaign at this level is indeed a battle to be won or lost… or in this case… given away.
The people in B.C. who actually turned up to vote took their chances, made their choice and it’s going to be an interesting 4 years. Christy Clark talked her way into the premiers office with an aggressive campaign that worked. Doesn’t matter if our new premier didn’t even win her own riding, nor that she didn’t know how to fill out a ballot.It didn’t even matter that very little that came out of her mouth was even true, the Liberals were able to get people to drink the Kool-aid and got their vote out. The NDP have a serious image issue to deal with, and a serious strategy issue.
For me, the desire to fight for what I believe in, is instinctual- but then again The Art of War is one of my favourite books. It’s been on my bedside table for over 15 years and I’ve read it many more times than that.
Perhaps I should lend it to the NDP.
Westcoast Views with Laila Yuile 
The NDP will have to change itself before it can change the province.
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Agreed. There are a lot of center lefts or small L lefties out there not interested in the party any more because of the internal nonsense.
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Have to agree….there will be a lot of navel gazing and infighting in the NDP now. I will only say one thing…the NDP needs to have people who will embrace and use to advantage, the right wing agenda of attacking and never letting up and attacking early in the game. No more Mr. Nice Guy. Take of the gloves and start fighting back. Nice guys finish last.
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I don’t think it needs to be nasty,I just think that when you are going up against a party that is very very well organized,smooth, practiced and has deeper pockets, you better have your act together on every single front. You can be a nice guy, but you cant be a nice guy who does nothing and tries to pretend hes above all that, and then resort to it at the last moment. I’m not a member,but I did make my worries known to more than a few people in the party.
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The “right wing” agenda of attacking? Really?
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If I did not know that Adrian Dix was the leader of the NDP, it would be clear that the style of running this campaign was all Carol James. It did not work for her so why would anyone believe it would work this time. I whole heartily agree with the comment “Dix didnt seem to want to fight for us, why would I vote for that? They couldn’t get it together! I want someone whose going to get tough when things get rough. Horgan would have done it.I’ll take my chances.” I said it myself and to others. What will happen to BC over the next 4 years unnerves me.
The polling issue: how could the pollsters get it so wrong, so many times in the least few years? BC, Alberta, Quebec, and even the last US Presidential election (republicans believed they had it in the bag) produced outcomes that historically have not occurred in such numerical oddity. Is there a new method to use polling in a nefarious way to dictate the results of an election?
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There is a lot of talk about the pollsters and polling. This is my view. If I was a leader of a party and/ or the person running the campaign, I would not pay more than a cursory moment of attention to the polls.I would commission internal polls only to see what areas needed attention in the campaign.I wouldn’t spend more than a moment in a Liberal stronghold riding and I still wouldn’t sit back on my hindside even if there was a 30 point spread.
I think you have to maintain the attitude that it’s never over till it’s over and fight like you are way behind the entire time.
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I’m deflated..but also not convinced that she did it alone…more will be revealed now that it is too late.. as I said on Twitter re: all the Encana donations – I wonder what they want? If only there was a minority so they would need to be accountable. Yes Laila – You will be a wonderful Campaign Manager until you run Yourself! I think we need you Provincially.
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It was a big mistake in my opinion to take those corp donations that specifically have only donated to the Libs while campaigning to eliminate them and union donations. My opinion only. I’m not saying I want to run a campaign, I’m just saying what I would have done. Hell, it might not have worked but it just seems to make sense to me.
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Even tho an aggressive campaign was needed, ugly was not. Dix could have been forceful without being nasty. They got half of it right – the wrong half. The part they got all wrong was coming out of the gates with the promise for Woodlands and then following that up with a series of weak-kneed, touchy-feely stuff. The world is economy oriented and there is plenty of honest, good, constructive economic stuff that could have been trotted out. And it wasn’t. Finally, if someone lies, you have to call them on it. Twice as loud and twice as much. Otherwise the lies gain traction. CC lied her way into victory. And Dix stood silent. That is not taking the high road, that is being cowardly. For evil to be done, good people only have to do nothing.
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Exactly, and that’s my point. And guess what? Doesn’t matter how many press releases the NDP release, the voters don’t read them. The voters really don’t sit and go through their site to see what they had to say on any given day. The message is what they see on on the evening news and what they read in the paper. That’s where the messaging really counts. And Christy was extremely consistent with that, if not truthful..lol.
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I too, was dumbstruck (or gobsmacked as they now say) over the BC Lieberal win last night.
Cristy Clark has almost an army of people working for her – both on the public purse and private funding. It is no surprise that the well oiled machine worked wonders that it shouldn’t have.
It appears that the conservative government parties have a real mean streak and don’t not worry about appearing to break convention – look at Harper, Mike Duffy and his $90,000 GIFT !!!
What the NDP – provincial and federal, need to do is get nasty and dirty and fight back. It doesn’t necessarily have to cost huge amounts of money – just research and then pick the moments.
The BC Lieberal gifted the BCNDP with the 2001 election manifesto – that could have been used effectively against them – along with all the other dirty tricks that were carried out.
I guess the old saying “the squeaky wheel gets the oil” holds true for elections too. Those who shout the loudest get heard first. Repeat enough lies and it becomes fact and therefore true !
Hopefully there will be big lessons learned from this election – if not we really will be in do-do up to our ears, if not already.
Wait for the lies and deceit to continue as they will.
Thanks
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Where the BC Liberals have an advantage is the use of the Young BC Liberals for so much extra campaign work. For some reason the image of an anthill with swarms of ants coming out comes to mind when I think of them..lol. they have people monitoring polls,news, blogs etc, and work at swaying public opinion.
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You hit the nail on the head Laila. Such an important election & the strategic thought that I assumed was being managed by some of the brightest was completely missing. Doesn’t matter that Dix has an IQ 10 points ahead of Clark people didn’t know who to trust & the fact that they choose the most corrupt pack of thieves & liars is astonishing.
My suggestion is the NDP need to tell their story/narrative on a continuous basis for the next 4years, not just a few months before an election. Too many bought into the Liberals “urban myth” the usual talking points about how the NDP will crash the economy ect. Where the money comes from for this is to be determined but it has to be done. I really fear for BC. Say goodbye to wild salmon for sure.
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True, and they really need to work on their image as well. Image inspires confidence, its an unavoidable fact.
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It was the damned polls. They led Dix to be complacent, to believe he didn’t have to do a damned thing. They led Dix to believe that he didn’t have to remind the electorate what they should be voting against. The polls led the electorate to think that they didn’t have to bother to turn out, yet again. What does this all say about British Columbia when the quip on everyone’s lips is, “nice guys finish last”?
It says that BC is the worst place on earth and nice doesn’t cut it here. Welcome to four years of hell, four years of destruction. No one is going to be paying attention to the media or polls next time, so how will you get votes? Votes will be bought, and guess what party, led by who, is in a position to buy them and doesn’t have one damned scruple about doing so? You don’t actually have to answer that out loud.
The next election campaign if there is going to be one, unlike the one we just had, which given the guaranteed four-year cycle must start now, is going to have to be truly representative of what British Columbians are really like, what they will pay attention to, and what they deserve.
If you think you deserve better than this … leave British Columbia, now the worst place in the world. Hell is closing in.
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Adrian in the House: “Madame Premier, during our campaign, we proposed a banning of union and corporate donations to political parties, to make the election process fairer and less open to corruption.
“We ask you, Madame Premier, if you will commit to doing the same before the next election — in the interest of democracy for all British Columbians.”
Christy: “Um… no.”
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The NDP did not get their vote out. But someone on facebook commented too on the stark divide between the economy/resourced based interior and the coast.
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Exactly right. It struck me that Dix does not know what competitiveness is. You can be competitive and honest, and tough, and rough. Being competitive is having the opponent sitting down after the contest, win or lose, and saying, “I don’t want to ever have to fight you again”, and you walk away with your head up and proud of the fight you gave. Dix refused to get into the trench’s.
Unfortunately 52% of the population did not think it was worth it to vote. For many reason’s. Well over the next four years they are going to find out if that was a good decision. Hydro is gone, we no longer will own it. Log’s are gone, Rivers are gone, Health Care will get worse, Education will be predominately ‘user-pay’, Liquor Distribution will be gone, Big Pharma will prevail, and people will pay through the nose, and suffer for and from prescription drugs. I predict that social-unrest and crime will increase, because of the lack of jobs, access to education, access to representation in the courts, the continued erosion of the middle-class, downloading of fee’s and services and on and on. I truly hope I’m wrong.
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Some body said that the NDP will find away to lose this election.I figured impossible with the kind of lead they had, But then the liberals starting to gain and the Momentum was on the Liberals side. And the NDP couldn’t get it back. I am so Pissed off with the NDP right now I could Spit.
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Could simply be that the Liberals – in stark contrast to the NDP – seemed to have some idea of how wealth is generated and to offer some roadmap, credible or not, based on that.
Compare that to the NDP: employed suburban mortgage-holding voters were rightly turned off at the prospect of seeing a party consisting of little more than social justice/”fairness” advocates and unionized government employees promise to “redistribute” yet more of their hard-won money. Dix was many times and in many places criticized for his uncosted, visionless spending promises…
I’m sure the NDP brand will sell well in Vancouver – among students, trendies and denizens of Commercial Drive coffee-bars – but they have NO IDEA of life in the interior of BC, either.
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Life in the Interior? Like, Walter Gray being installed as mayor of Kelowna by FourChange? Yup, that’s life in the terrible dark valleys of this province. That’s how we roll, and so does BC.
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Laila,spent a lot of time reading around your site during the election.Your love of the province is apparent as is your commitment and passion.You’re keen and wise.
Would you ever consider making a move to lead a party?How would we get someone like you to do this?
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I agree, go for it Laila. The NDP are a total bunch of wimps…
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As I said above Laila, Provincial Politics needs someone like you!!
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A move to provincial politics is something I have been thinking about for a long time, however my children have always been my priority and so this has been my form of public service. Your faith in me is humbling and I’ve received a lot of emails on this as well. Also some very interesting opportunities.
All I can say is when the time is right, I’ll make that move. 😉
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Add this electoral win to the list of bad things BC Liberals have done.
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Sorry guys, I’ve been busy and will check back in a bit to answer comments, but the Liberals didn’t do this Scotty. The NDP have some serious reflection to do right now.
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You mean the list of things the NDP didn’t do?
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That could be about 100 points or so… 😦 But thankfully some very very good MLA’s were re-elected. I was so happy to see David Eby win that seat! It will be fun to watch him as an MLA.
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All ndp or even the conservatives had to do was keep listing all the scandals
and waste attributed to the Liberals and their friends. People who read would have seen the records for what they were.
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To Kreditanstalt: You are spouting off the same old urban myth about the NDP. I’ve been an NDP party member for years & NEVER, not once has there been a conversation about economics and how to pay for any social program without balancing it out with sound economic policy which includes development.
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Tell that to the voters, Jean…the NDP were widely perceived as opposing every private development proposal, living in some kind of la-la-land where no one has to actually make a profit at all. They DID seem to go over well with anyone collecting a government check, employed young people, the younger women demographic, resource industry pensioners and hip, trendy urbanites. But look at their results in the suburban bedroom communities of Coquitlam, Delta, Surrey, North Vancouver…
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Hey Mr K, Mr Mitteleuropa … That’s quite a specific and interesting hit list … people collecting government “checks” [sic], young people, young women, resource industry pensioners, and hip urbanites (twice now). Are they your all-purpose targets, to be recycled for any use? I’ll keep my ears open here in the Interior … I’m sure I’ll recognize your words.
Let’s study some other history and politics, more domestic and relevant than the aspirations of mitteleuropa. Consider these quotes:
” … ran up a deficit of over $1.2 billion in 1986–87, a far cry from the deficit figure of $389 million that had been presented in the pre-election budget. …”
“… The greatest failure of the Devine years was the accumulation of an unprecedented debt, much of it attributable to tax cuts and … ”
Mr K, start your education here, by pasting this link into your browser …
http://esask.uregina.ca/entry/devine_grant_1944-.html
… and reading the full context.
Sounds familiar? It is the same program that the so-called Liberals [who don’t even come by the name honestly] are following to doom British Columbia.
Keep Googling to find out what else the so-called right-wing party did to destroy Saskatchewan. You’ll find out that the fiscally responsible NDP were voted back in to salvage and save … and the years of prudent fiscal NDP management are what’s making Saskatchewan premier Brad Wall look good now. Brad Wall is not standing on the shoulders of the right-wing.
But apparently and obviously, British Columbia and you, Mr Kreditanstalt, are dunce students of history. Accordingly, British Columbia is doomed to repeat Saskatchwan’s mistakes. Doomed.
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And therein lies the problem, part of anyways, of why the NDP lost. Sean Holman said it best yesterday when he said: “The need to attack your opponent is part of it. But that’s all for naught if there isn’t a backing narrative. It’s about the story you tell voters to sell yourself and encourage them not to buy into the other party.” Sean said they haven’t been able to do this in any of the last elections or this one, and I agree absolutely.
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go cry in your beer losers…
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What, and ruin perfectly good beer?
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Cry in my Beer? Why? When I know in my “heart of hearts” Christy will stick her foot in her mouth on a weekly basis. She’s too self absorbed and , more importantly, she actually believes the drivle she spews forth.
Lets see how she actually governs over the next 4 years because we havent seen anything EXCEPT electioneering from her over the past two years.
Us, “losers” wont be the ones crying. We’ll be saying ” We told ya”
You “winners” will be cringing and crying every time that buffon steps in front of a microphone. Sarah Paiin’s genomes mixed with Rob Fords MIGHT reach the level of crass stupidity displayed by our Premier “elect”
Oh wait? She still isnt an elected Preem!
bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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I too am shocked and upset. And I started to get angry until I realized that didn’t do any good. I’m upset that there won’t be a BC Rail inquiry and that Campbell got a ‘get out of jail Free’ card. I’m baffled about how the pipeline issues will work out. And what Black has to offer. And how the ‘Prosperity Fund’ will fare w/o LNG sales (to whom?).
But on the bright side, I can always move to the other side of the country where the cost of living is less when the west coast is desecrated.
Yup, time to look after yourself because Chrispy sure won’t. It might be all about ‘Famiglia First’, but it won’t be yours or mine.
I’ll hang around for a while to watch the ship go down, but rest assured, my bags are packed…..
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Very good points, all of them. Don’t forget me wherever you go my dear and send me a care package… 🙂
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In late summer of last year I sent an email to Dix asking what his position was on the Enbridge pipeline. Weeks passed before I received a “thanks for your email” response, but no answer to my question. I was baffled by a politician who seemed to have no position on anything. I had no idea of what he stood for. But Dix made my decision easy – he immediately lost my vote. Finally Dix took a public stance on the pipeline, but it was too late. He squandered opportunity after opportunity to hammer the Liberals on so many issues, I wondered why he wasn’t on the attack to demonstrate that he was a forceful leader. Instead he came across as an indecisive wimp. His campaign advisers might have been stupid or inept – I think they were both.
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Whoever ran this campaign should have his ass kicked down the road so hard and so long that he never goes near another. Nice guys don’t win in today’s political society. They have tread marks across their forehead just like Mr. Dix does today. Dix was just another Carol James, this time with a penis.
My feeling all along was to jump out of the gate like junkyard dogs and rip the living shit out of every Liberal and every sleazy corrupt thing they ever did and keep beating away one them till election night..
Another four years of pillage and theft.
CGHZD
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I’m sure you mean verbally rip into the Liberals and not figuratively…:)
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Further more, the NDP should start as soon as Christy Clark decides which sheep will be sacrificed for her try at getting re-elected. Start the campaign with why she suddenly resigned over the BC Rail deal and keep beating the living shit out of every sleazy, corrupt Lieberal deal after that. In fact be creative, add any outrageous bs that can be thought of and let them deny it.
Once the crap is spread its very hard to clean off. Just ask the NDP
They have absolutely nothing to lose now.
CGHZD
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Great point, CGHZD. Christy will have to run again — so a full-out war (even in a ‘safe’ seat) could be fun!
If Harper can find some Ottawa job for Rich Coleman, Fort Langley would be a sweet spot for CC.
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Let’s not forget the BC Lieberal interference and intimidation over the HST referendum. Remember Craig James sending out threatening letters to senior citizens and other intimidating techniques, to try and influence the collection of signatures. The canvassers who were followed – some threatend by big burly strangers !
Don’t think for one minute, that what happened last night was on the up and up – the results were probably rigged. I would bet good money that a lot of votes were either lost or not submitted even though “Elections BC” claim they were. Remember that “Elections BC” does whatever the BC Lieberal government tells it to do. The last decent and upright person running Elecetions BC got fired by the BC Lieberals (Pinocchio Campbell I believe) and Craig James was installed to do the dirty work.
Let’s take the gloves off and get to work – this BC Lieberal government needs to know what democracy is all about.
Thanks
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And Craig James was very well rewarded by Christy Clark.
She appointed him to be legislative clerk at $250,000 a year for life.
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/clark-closes-legislature-ends-debate-for-the-summer-1.651980
The NDP voted against hiring Craig James, the province’s current acting chief electoral officer, saying a job for life with an annual salary of $250,000 should be open to a competition.
But after allowing Christy Clark to get away with giving out free lunch and posing in front of ‘Voting Place’ signs on the day of the Vancouver-Point Grey bi-election Craig James expected his reward.
How disgusting is this picture?
Here’s the story with more disgusting pictures.
http://blogborgcollective.blogspot.ca/2011/05/press-were-present-before-christy-clark.html
Has Elections BC been corrupted?
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Election BC people were wondering why cameras were allowed in with CC when there were clearly signs saying NO CAMERAS outside. I didn’t see this (no cable) They told me.
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Aftter looking around more – I suspect they were misinformed and that they were referring to encroaching the 100 ft boundary with the brown bag lunches – Still – think she’s have let NDP get away with it?
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Right on Laila! We wanted Christy Clark gone but we didn’t find a replacement. Some of us also also wanted a conversation on specific issues. Throughout the campaign, Activist groups asked Mr Dix and the NDP to: Stop old growth logging! Stop raw log exports! Stop pipeline expansion! Ban tankers! Say no to fracking! Stop salmon farming! there may have been other issues too… The email/blogging campaigns were fast and furious. Every opportunity to get newsworthy attention over this was missed by Mr Dix.
After a while, we got a few hints that the NDP would listen and stop the Kinder Morgan expansion. But it didn’t look good for Mr.Dix who didn’t get excited and make a big deal over this great political activism. He could have held a news conference – made an offer to work toward those goals with the Environmental groups. His commitments were indirect and evasive.
Christy Clark got out and made NEWS by meeting the voters. Dix didn’t!
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Wow, talk about burned.
Your entire diatribe places the blame for the NDP’s failure on using the wrong tactics. It wasn’t a matter of tactics. Dix and the NDP simply didn’t have the goods. When Dix said that he would withhold judgment until the facts were in regarding the twinning of the Kinder Morgan, and then came out on Earth Day and said that he was against it, it was a revelation to the people of BC of what kind of guy he really is. As for backtracking on a 2 year NDP moratorium in regards to getting out the natural gas, the people of BC then simply knew that they couldn’t trust him. His own people at least weren’t trying to hide what they were up to. But Dix knew that a revelation of his true plans was a deal breaker with the people of B.C. so he went into damage control but quick. A moratorium is as good as a no in todays fast paced world. Natural gas sells at 4 times the price in Asia compared to the North American price, and we have lots of it. We also have the advantage of being 2 shipping days closer to the Asian market. The revenue from the gas sector will pay for all those school teachers and hospitals that the NDP and everyone else wants. The resource sector is the bread and butter of every single British Columbian, including the union tradesmen with their high paying jobs. Even the union miners in central BC voted against Dix. Their livelihood depends on those resource jobs and they know it. Everything else is but part of the service industry and the rotation of internal dollars. The public ‘got it’. Dix never did.
Dix never did have a plan for the economy, and the economy is the main thing. The main thing is always to keep the main thing the main thing. Dix did run as good a campaign as one could run when you consider that he had nothing to offer the populace other than other people’s money. The fact of the matter is that the guy has never had a real job in his entire life. He is like a Glen Clark who never grew up. His knowledge of economics is non-existant. This is not rocket science.
The raving and screeching on on this blog is just a revelation of how the slogan, “one practical step at a time” is nothing more than a joke.
The knives will be out for Dix soon enough if they aren’t out already. Its the NDP ‘way’. The NDP will inflict ‘change’ on Dix, one practical slice at a time. At least the uneducated Carole James had a nice smile.
I I am getting a kick out of the high and mighty attitude of your crew. Say hi to Moe for me.
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Dix never did have a plan for the economy, and the economy is the main thing. The main thing is always to keep the main thing the main thing. Dix did run as good a campaign as one could run when you consider that he had nothing to offer the populace other than other people’s money. The fact of the matter is that the guy has never had a real job in his entire life. He is like a Glen Clark who never grew up. His knowledge of economics is non-existant. This is not rocket science.
I couldn’t say this any better.
In general, socialists and leftwingers have little understanding of economics and production. As youth they believe in an ethereal ideal and entitled world. Then most never get a real job, and if they do they hate it, and blame the ‘system’ for their own failures. In this process, they never really get to learn about economics and the science of production. Everything for them is cultural. If only all conservatives would try out granola and once in a while do a Kumbaya dance, all our woes would be solved, they say.
This insistence of putting the ideal ahead of the material is their downfall.
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What a bunch of nincompoops here. The NDP is against anything private, and just wants to fatten the public union paychecks and benefits and 31 hour workweeks, from 30% above market to 50% above market, with no accountability for the bureaucrat or the leftwing freeloaders.
Any kind of resource industry is verbotten under the NDP, because the socialists believe that all resource production must be state owned and controlled. And for them, this can be done at any cost, even at 50% less productivity as the private sector. Because capital is no issue — if you run out of other people’s money (by paying 50% over market salaries to your favorite voters), you just tax more, and your problem goes away.
Did you know that private electricity producers sell their power to BC Hydro at a price that is 35% BELOW the cost of Site C? Did you know that private electricity producers pay five (5) times more in taxes and benefits to government than BC Hydro (which borrows the money anyways)?
Now chew on that nincompoops who are whining “why did we not bring up BC Rail”.
Do you really believe the masses are such brainless sheeples to care for your petty stories (CC mistakenly drove through the red light)?
If you had a real job, instead of union and government pensions and fat paychecks, you would understand what I mean. Burn my dear friends burn.
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Actually, I USED to vote liberal…….Until that IDIOT became the leader of your beloved party.
As far as your attempt to lump all us NDP voters into the same socialist trough.
Thanks for the “economics” lesson.
I have one question for you.
WHEN will the Liberals actually balance a budget?
Christy Clark is an idiot and every time she opens her mouth she proves it.
Lets just wait and see
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I love the part Chris. where you fail to mention the many lies that Clark campaigned on, was called out on repeatedly on and still kept saying them..lol… All those CBC reality checks on her LNG claims that are all hot air, her claims Moody said her budget was balanced and the fact that she actually added to the province debt but did little.
Clark couldn’t even win her own seat as an MLA and had issues figuring out how to vote. Good luck with that 😉
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This election should fill every progressive thinking person in Canada with a sense of dread. This was a Harper team, a Harper strategy and a Harper victory. If they play the game so well against all odds, what chance do we have on the National stage where Harper has way less baggage than Christy did. There is only one sensible solution. The NDP and Liberals have to join forces for the next election. Run on a platform of graduated voting, run offs or proportional representation. The first past the post system belongs in the 18th century, and that’s where it is keeping Canada.
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Chris Mack, you should get your story right before you start yapping. Canada is closer than Australia? Canada is closer to China than China? You should also get your statements on cost of gas right. Why is the gas industry subsidized by the Government? Why isn’t the LNG’s up and running? Are they waiting for more subsidies from Government? No, couldn’t be the reason. Just read about the cost of LNG’s to Australia and how the taxpayer is La,Laing in money there from LNG’s. Also, why is Hydro buying power it doesn’t need? Why? Watch as your fearless leader will be selling off Hydro within 2 years. What will be your justification then after CC has run it into the ground?
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Oh, one last question. How much is Marky Mark paying you to hit the blogs with this senescence? You’ll soon find out your little job is no longer needed and you will be dismissed.
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“the Liberals were able to get people to drink the Kool-aid and got their vote out”
Very key line here. The Libs were able to brainwash (I hate that word but its true in this case) voters and campaigned on fallacies as you mentioned. They ran a “fact-free campaign” and Dix could’ve used that line as fodder for messaging in ads if he ever chose to fight back. I am no supporter of Dix or Clark and I also have worked in a campaign before – in this election. The second part to that line is also key and it relates to money in politics. The irony is that the only party that did not support a ban on corporate and union donations is the party that has been elected to form government. That is how effective money and big, wealthy donors are in this province and it is really, really sad. I saw it first hand in our campaign where the incumbent liberal spent 6-figures and my candidate’s spending was in the 4-figures. Talk about David vs. Goliath!
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Thanks that’s what it comes down to.The message and the vote. KISS method. Not the all over the place method. I’m not sure what they paid Topp but they should get a refund.
Posted on HuffingtonPost BC http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/laila-yule/adrian-dix-election-grit_b_3284704.html?utm_hp_ref=canada-british-columbia
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@Gary says: “Also, why is Hydro buying power it doesn’t need? Why? Watch as your fearless leader will be selling off Hydro within 2 years.”
This is typical nonsense from the losers that permeate the blogosphere and lack proper employment or work for government, and who produce very little.
BC Hydro is extremely short on power to the point that it cannot supply even the first LNG plant that is coming online, much less the upstream shale gas producers, mines, and ports. In the past 11 years, BC Hydro had to import dirty power from Washington and Alberta for 8 of the years.
And then BC Hydro’s dream pie in the sky propaganda that it’ll cut the need for power through “conservation”. Well they spent over $ 500,000,000 on DSM to cut consumption, and guess what — they have nothing to show for it. after almost 6 years. Yes folks, that is where the rate increase is going to pay for the salary and bonuses of Beverly Van Ruyven, the inventor of this DSM scheme, to the tune of $400,000 a year.
And oh, private power price to BC Hydro is 25% cheaper than what Hydro charges consumers, and 35% cheaper than what BC Hydro will pay for Site C.
Get your facts straight, losers.
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Dont forget BC Hydro is 50 billion dollars in debt because of contracts to buy “clean” run of river power…..Or did you convienently forget that?
Either way, if Christy Clark is true to form, BC Hydro will be sold ” because its losing money” in the next 2 years.
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Lib’s Supercontributer didn’t wait long to let everyone know they are around!!
GASP! That was Fast! /RT @encana Where are U going 4 summer vacation this year? Is #natgas going 2 B a part of UR trip? http://ow.ly/ksKoq #bcpoli
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Someone with a real job
Tell us this drivel again when your living under an underpass and crapping into a shoe box.
It won’t be long now.
CGHZD
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Read the BC Hydro “Report on the Clean Power Call” which is the source for these numbers.
So you have conflicting figures that you can post? Will be waiting.
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I surprised you can read!
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Its really nice to see someone with a real job and a real brain posting here. Keep it up.
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In the six months ended September 2012, BC Hydro purchased 5,589 GWh of electricity from private power producers for $383 million, an average cost of $68,527 per GWh. BC Hydro didn’t need private power since it was generating more than it could sell domestically, despite dumping stored water without running it through generators.
Surplus electricity sold through trade markets returned $24,580 per GWh while BC Hydro paid almost three times that unit value for private power. One could calculate an apparent loss of $246 million between BC Hydro’s purchase price and its selling price for private power. However, the loss is even higher because potential power, not generated when water was spilled from dams unused, could have been had for little more than zero marginal cost. Great management there If you were running a pop-shop this way you would be fired. Here’s another little goody for you.
According to audited financial statements, BC Hydro’s debt for future energy purchases was $7.9 BILLION in 2006, not including Powerex. In 2012, that number had gone up almost seven fold, to $53.1 BILLION, not including Powerex. You will NEED a “Real Job” to pay for it.
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“In the six months ended September 2012, BC Hydro purchased 5,589 GWh of electricity from private power producers for $383 million, an average cost of $68,527 per GWh. ”
You are implying that CEPs (clean energy producers) are receiving $68.6 a MWh from BC Hydro. Wrong. Depending on the CEP’s production cost anywhere from $10 to $25 a MWh goes back to government (i.e. the owner of BC Hydro) in the form of property taxes, water rental fees, land fees, first nation royalty and equity, income tax, operational tax, and dividend tax. BC Hydro pays none of these taxes (except for water rental fees). In effect, CEPs are only charging BC Hydro $44 to $59 a MWh. Compare this to the rate BC Hydro charges residences of $93 or the average price of power sold by BCH of $70, and BCH is making a tidy unearned profit off CEP power.
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“BC Hydro didn’t need private power since it was generating more than it could sell domestically, despite dumping stored water without running it through generators.”
Wrong. Only three out of the past 11 years has resulted in a surplus of power generation which depends on rainfall, and can vary considerably from year to year. To say that BC Hydro does not need the power is incorrect, because in the other eight years BC Hydro did need the power. In fact for the majority of year, BCH was a net importer of power.
BC Hydro requires long term contract in order to plan for its power aquisition and distribution, and have operational certainty. It cannot depend on the spot market because that market may not be there tomorrow. Therefore depending on rainfall and load, BC Hydro may be short in one year and long in another year, due to natural variances in rainfall (or load factors).
To say that because in the last year of the past decade BC Hydro was a net exporter and thus does not need power, is patently false and misleading because if you average the past decade, BC Hydro has been a net importer. BC Hydro requires long term contracts that balance out with demand. To determine if BCH needs the power, you have to examine the long term, and not a singular year. This should be obvious even to the casual observer.
In fiscal 2012, the rainfall exceeded 11% of the average trend. It was an exceptional and outlying year. In 2011, the rainfall was 12% below average and BC Hydro was a net importer. To selectively single out an outlier and make a sweeping gernalization of that clearly indicates that you have an agenda and that you are uncritically repeating the myths. These myths are being pushed by those who have an interest in milking public property and charging high rates from ratepayers.
In outlying surplus rainfall years, obviously some of the 31 dams of BC Hydro will spill over. However not all regions receive the same surplus and some may even have a deficit of rainfall. You can easily get one dam spilling while the rest having depressed storage levels. That is expected in a complex system of dams, watersheds, and drainages. It is not so simple.
Besides, BC Hydro has determined that it is short on power and has purchased some long-term contracts. If BC Hydro has made an error in its calculations, why is that CEP’s fault?
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This message board is broken and does not let me post longer replies. I have tried to break them down.
“BC Hydro didn’t need private power since it was generating more than it could sell domestically, despite dumping stored water without running it through generators.”
Wrong. Only three out of the past 11 years has resulted in a surplus of power generation which depends on rainfall, and can vary considerably from year to year. To say that BC Hydro does not need the power is incorrect, because in the other eight years BC Hydro did need the power. In fact for the majority of year, BCH was a net importer of power.
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“In fact for the majority of year, BCH was a net importer of power.”
And what rate did we pay for the imported power? Last spring, Bonneville Power was offering their surplus for peanuts… while we were locked into IPP contracts.
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Sorry, but the talking point of “cheap Washington power” is a fallacy. You are taking an exceptional year and then extrapolating for 30 years. That is not how companies, production units, including BC Hydro do their forecast. These production units have to operate in the REAL world, not the simplistic mythical world of the anti-private sector socialist activist.
Washington State power price in the past month has been $35 to $40 a MWh. Compare this to $44 to $59 a MWh that Clean Energy Producers charge BC Hydro.
Now, the spot market price will increase by inflation. In fact natural gas prices have gone up, because shale gas wells quickly deplete and the cost of fracking is much higher than the cost of natural gas today. Already Alberta power prices have exceeded $48.
Inflation is about 2% a year. The Washington State price will increase by this amount over 30 years. If this price of power is $37 today (much higher when the excess natural gas has been exported as LNG or burned off), in 30 years it will become $67 a MWh.
Compare this to the 25% of inflation that Clean Energy Producers get from BC Hydro. I.e. BC Hydro pockets 75% of the inflation price increase without lifting a finger, not a bad deal for BC Hydro?
If CEP price is $52 a MWh (after taxes) on the average today, in 30 years it will be $60 a MWh. Guess who will be laughing to the bank with all this unearned profit? BC Hydro! In fact BC Hydro will soon be buying cheap CEP power and selling it to Washington, Oregon, California, and making a bundle.
Additionally, Washington State power is partially dirty producing GHGs and coal fired pollution, it is cheap spot instead of expensive long-term, mostly not green, is non-firm, carbon tax will have to be added, and worst of all we will export our capital and jobs to Washington.
For the past five years, the average out-of province power price, when you include the above costs to it, and not including even the cost of exporting capital and jobs — the price of Washington power increases to $76, way above private clean and green power at $52 today or Clean Power Call price at $71 a MWh average in the future.
So in 30 years Washington State power price will be $138, while CEP power price charged to BC Hydro will remain at $60.
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Barry, I wrote you a long post, but the system censored it as “spam” ! Anyone who tries to answer properly with all the nuances is now a spammer according to Laila.
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Hi there, the spam filter automatically holds really long replies if they meet a certain criteria for spam – it held it for my approval because it fit the spam perameters and then held the rest because now the IP was tagged.I’ve just taken the longer one and another one out, and deleted your other redundant replies. If I missed anything let me know.
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Thanks for explaining that Laila. I actually find “Someone…” has some very good points. Rational informed discussion with the odd zinger tossed in…….”dats what I likes about the folks here.”
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Leila, can’t you fix the bug with your system? I just wrote a long post in reply to Barry Stewart, and it has been censored. It doesn’t even say it has gone to moderation. Just disappeared into thin air. Well, I am not going to write it again. You lefties just don’t want to hear alternate views, or the facts that challenge your myths.
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It is not a bug in the system,I explained it to you. I do not censor comments.Your IP address is one that is among a block of numbers associated with heavy spam activity. That isn’t my problem,it is yours. And by the way, you don’t need to keep sending new comments over and over and over again – I check the spam filter when I can, and will unspam your comments. You are the only one who seems to have this issue.
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Why don’t you instruct your system to take my IP address out of your list of blocked IPs?
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And by the way, my name is Laila, not Leila – you can see it written all over my site should you need assistance.
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Oh – so sorry to offend! My bad – but it was unintentional. Lol.
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“China is set for a shale gas revolution which will surpass that seen in the United States, the chairman of Sinopec, the country’s second-largest oil company, said a day after Reuters revealed Royal Dutch Shell Plc had begun shale gas production in China.
“Fu Chengyu, chairman of state-controlled China Petroleum & Chemical Corp (Sinopec) , said it could take five to 10 years but that China’s output would exceed that of the United States.
” ‘I think the total reserves are even more than the U.S. so production is not less than the U.S., but it is a matter of timing,’ he told reporters at the sidelines of the World Petroleum Congress.
“U.S. energy markets were fundamentally changed by the development of shale gas. In the space of several years, the country went from natural gas shortages to a point where companies are planning to export gas to Asia, …” Reuters Dec. 7, 2011 So who is your fearless leader going to sell to?
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Gary, I am trying to respond to your comments, but when I post a reply, usually it does not appear (especially if long), and although Laila restores the comment, I just don’t want to go through the effort of composing a detailed response only to see it not appear.
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Friday, 08 June 2012 by Eric Andersen
“So, over the last six to eight years how much new debt has BC Hydro taken on in your name, as a citizen and owner; do you know or care? Besides the formal amount of $8 billion in new total liabilities it has added $2.2 billion of receivables from the ratepayer’s category. BC’s Auditor General reports that it looks like this category is programmed to balloon even more. These obligations do not take into account the present value of the secret IPP contracts that would probably add another $30-40 billion to total liabilities.
In the face of evidence that no new electricity generation is needed in the foreseeable future, BC Hydro is presenting a story where it sees the need for 14,000 new units by 2017, not that far off. In terms of new borrowing and spending what does this mean? If we use the values associated with the Site C project, each new unit of useable electricity comes with a capital requirement of about $2 million. Your government/public corporation is planning to contract for or directly finance new generation that will produce a new liability of about $30 billion by 2017 and double that by the end of the forecast period.
You may ask, where does this insanity stop? What motive could possibly explain this outrageous mismanagement of our public asset?
Perhaps the explanation lies outside of BC. In 2006, a new corporation came into existence in the US, dubbed the “North American Electric Reliability Corporation” (NERC).
This corporation has the legal mandate to impose its will on all North American electricity producers. This will is a legal right to levy fines of consequence on those producers not obeying instructions. This corporation is not beholden to any elected body, nor does it disclose its beneficial owners. Our federal government has accepted this reality by having the National Energy Board sign a memorandum of understanding with NERC, in the fall of 2006. NERC’s most recent annual report affirms it now has “ENFORCEMENT” powers in Ontario and New Brunswick. NERC has been and is active elsewhere in Canada, furthering its restraint of trade objective which certainly does not look as serving the public interest of BC citizens.
The forgoing is not something both the BC Government and BC Hydro would have been ignorant of, which makes knowing of an act of complicity.”
The plan that was laid out “for all family’s” well before the Provincial Election. But…..but…..but….did CC tell the voters any of this???? You better have a “Real Job”.
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Why was NERC formed?
Was NERC formed as a reaction to the California “rolling “brown outs? The same “brown outs” caused by unscrupulous Enron power brokers bribing power plant officials in numerous states to cause fake power shortages?
I can certainly see the US wanting to make sure their power grid was “reliable”.
Lets face it. In this computerized world.
Power literally IS, power.
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Gary, you know not what you speak of.
A contractual obligation is neither a “liability” nor a “debt”. You’ve got your economics mixed up.
And then for each dollar of contractual obligation to Clean Energy Producers (CEP), BC Hydro receives green, clean, long-term, and sustainable energy that is valued at $1.40 or so. BC Hydro loves to have these “billions” of contracts because it is quite profitable for BC Hydro.
“Secret IPP contracts”? Lol – there is nothing secret about them. They are on BC Hydro’s website, only if you cared to look.
The actual contract is here:
http://www.bchydro.com/energy-in-bc/acquiring_power/closed_offerings/clean_power_call/documents.html
The price for the contracts is here:
Click to access cpc_rfp_process_report.pdf
So can you tell us what is “secret”?
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http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/08/16/BCHydroReportHides/
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Sorry but The Tyee is a very unreliable source for complex economic matters, for business matters and largely for politics.
I will be happy to debunk the Tyee article and tell you exactly where it is wrong. Their journalistic standards are low, and Bill Tieleman obviously knows little of the facts, and is just parroting the myths and playing with language.
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Then do so. And these documents as well. http://www.bcndp.ca/newsroom/bc-hydro-documents-show-massive-surplus-expensive-power
Click to access BC_Hydro_documents_-_surplus_power_and_cost_to_BC.pdf
Click to access BC_Hydro_excess_power_and_cost_to_BC_-_4-year_total.pdf
http://thecanadian.org/component/k2/itemlist/user/73-erikandersen and therein are many links to supporting data.
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Eric Anderson is part of the rightwing socialist gang of Rafe Mayer and Damon Gillis. He has never had a job outside of government and there his job was air traffic patterns. Absolutely no knowledge of power generation or how power is priced and contracted.
He claims that BC Hydro must pay IPPs $53 billion. This is wrong and absurd.
What he says is highly misleading and only partially true. And it does not even matter because in return BC Hydro will receive more value than what it paid for.
Only a small part of BC Hydro power purchase obligations is to IPPs. The obligation to buy power from run of river producers in the next 30 years is about $8.7 billion (after taxes paid).
His $53 billion scare number includes obligations to non-IPP mining companies like Alcan and Teck, and to its own subsidiaries or other government entities such as the Brilliant Dam or Arrow Lakes. Then it includes wind producers, biomass, natural gas thermal, ERG, municipal solid waste burning, biogas. It also includes future obligations to buy natural gas, and lease obligations.
And about 1/2 of EPAs offered to IPPs never get built because of the low prices offered. Your figure includes about 18 projects, some of them huge, which have been terminated, but the EPA still exists.
The hydro obligation to small producers is only $8.7 billion over 30 years, and is a small fraction of BC Hydro’s giant sales to customers.
But does it matter? BC Hydro is receiving clean and green sustainable power at a rate (after taxes paid) that is far below what it can itself produce. For new plants, BC Hydro’s own cost of generation is about 50% to 55% more expensive than new plants by IPPs.
For the $8.7 billion of obligations to IPPs, BC Hydro will receive $13.6 billion in green and clean power. Not a bad deal.
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The numbers by the NDP are comic. For example it says it is paying CEPs $94 a MWh, when the fact is $71 for the most recent set of contracts and $44 to $59 for older contracts, after taxes paid.
You leftwingers believe people are sheeple and can’t see the lies in NDP’s flyers. Any wonder you are losers?
I will debunk the NDP flyers in due course.
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Debate on facts, seems you prefer not to, instead deflecting with references to English language semantics when pressed.
Clearly, from your fervor, I would guess that you have a vested interest in all of this. Perhaps you would enlighten us as to either your name or position?
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Debate on facts, seems you prefer not to, instead deflecting with references to English language semantics when pressed.
All the numbers I have provided are factual. I have provided citations and will provide backup for any of the figures provided. My posts are chuck full of numbers and facts, but you have to pull off the smear tactic that “you prefer not to provide facts”. The chutzpah is mind boggling.
What you disagree with are the facts, but hey, if you disagree and your loser leftwing buddies all subscribe to the same illiberal socialist mythologies, and none understand economics or power generation, then the facts must be wrong and hence are not facts. The gall of it.
Any wonder the “sheeple” who the left calls, saw through your tacticts and booted Adrien and the NDP out of a perceived government?
Clearly, from your fervor, I would guess that you have a vested interest in all of this. Perhaps you would enlighten us as to either your name or position?
Ad hominem my dear.
As if you elitists don’t have a vested interest in Adrien’s government? Your interest is leeching on taxpayers money and forcing the “sheeple” to pay up. My interest is to honestly compete in the marketplace and offer a product cheaper than others and thus be of service to my community and the “sheeple”. I provide my power 50% to 55% cheaper to BC Hydro than its own Site C. I create a lot of wealth for the “sheeple”. What have you done and what do you do to be of service? Run a blog full of mythology and lies (“IPP power is expensive”, “BC Hydro owes $53B to IPPs”, “Washington State power is clean and green”, “existing IPPs sell power to BC Hydro at $69 a MWh”, and other falsehoods, if not outright lies from Rafe and Eric Anderson.
The “brainwashed” “sheeple” who needs to be “guided by the left” otherwise “they will just watch TV” and “easily fall for Christy’s looks” have seen through your lies, deception, and lack of substance.
Just because you want to increase already bloated unions salaries at the cost of the homeless and the poor does not mean you can run a government, does it?
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Ah, so are the owner/operator of an IPP? Wonderful to know. But you still haven’t addressed those BC Hydro documents I posted.
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No I am not an owner/operator – I am a hydrologist who works at a consulting firm, with knowledge about power generation and economics.
instead deflecting with references to English language semantics when pressed.
Wow – your dishonesty and insincerety is on full display here.
Who is the person trying to argue by language and semantics that a contract is a “debt”? That a contract is a “mortgage”? That a contract is a one-way “liability”?
You were arguing on language, and not on economic facts. A debts is when someone advances you money, and you pay it back with interest. Same with a mortgage. And a contract is both an asset and a liability simultaneously.
So typical to idle leftists who believe there is nothing to society except illicit relationships and anyone making an income is a crook and an insider, and that society is one grand set up by capitalists exploiting the poor, and thus there are no need of facts and the truth — because god is on your side, and you are oh so righteous and compassionate, and all you have to do is weave rhetoric and tripe to feed the “sheeple” so they come and vote for you.
Laila, there is no point of debating with an insincere or dishonest person. One more of these blows below the belt, and I am out of here.
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Bye “somebody”. My mistake if you truly don’t run an IPP – you said in your prior comment:
Which did make it sound like you specifically are the one competing, creating wealth for the sheeple, referring to it as your power, your competition, your product.
It’s a shame, since I was really looking forward to you debunking everything that you promised you would debunk on the NDP links with those BC Hydro documents.Or did you change your mind on that? Actual BC Hydro documents,although you’ve tried to claim I haven’t shown you anything legit.
And we haven’t even gotten into the environmental issues we’ve seen with Run of the River projects all over the province, going back years.Think anything has changed on many of them? Not likely. https://lailayuile.com/2009/05/06/what-the-liberals-dont-want-you-to-find-out-until-after-election-day-documents-obtained-by-cbc-news-show-run-of-the-river-projects-are-breaking-environmental-regulations/
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Laila, I am the person telling you to stop deflecting into English language and semantics. I am the person presenting detailed facts with backup.
And then you accuse me of playing with language and avoiding facts, in order to absolve yourself. Best defense is an offense, for you.
Show me where I have been counterfactual and where I have tried to evade by language.
Why are all idle leftists so insincere, and believe anything goes, as long as it furthers their self-righteous cause, and that god must be on their side? Just like rightwing self-righteous Christian fundamentalists.
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Still waiting for that debunking of the NDP/BC Hydro documents. Why do you refuse to supply it?
And which project is it that you are consulting on that’s making so many people rich?
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Laila, my company works for IPPs, and I am also responsible for creating cheap renewable energy as much as they are. It is a whole team effort. About 100 people are involved to get the project to the construction stage, and then another 100 people to build it.
Hydro and wind is a small part of our company. We mainly consult on mines and infrastructure, including a lot of government related work. The government hydro sector is about 10 times larger than IPPs, so you can imagine were we put our time mostly. You won’t believe how much money there is in BC Hydro jobs, and we were hoping Dix would win so there will be more government contracts because he promised more government spending. But my heart is with IPPs because they don’t squander people’s money, they are responsible for their own money, and produce cheaper power.
You want me to answer to the NDP errors in the flyers. Of course your motivation is not to learn the facts, or arrive at the reality, but to see how you can improve the flyers so they become more plausible and bulletproof, without changing the lies, in order to fool the sheeple.
As I said before, for the socialist anything goes, and the end justifies the means. Unfortunately for you the “brainwashed sheeple” see through you, and then vote with the ballot.
I am not sure I am up to playing your insincere games and ad hominem, after all I have a real job and am pressed on time.
So what is your job Laila? Why are you so interested in my position, but never talk about yourself?
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Nobody has gotten rich on IPPs. Maybe one guy with Plutonics. Why do you make up lies? Most IPPs have been unsuccessful and have closed shop because the rates offered by BCH is too low.
Finavera got 4 EPAs to build wind. All projects have been cancelled.
Give me the names of people who have gotten rich, and stop making things up without any backup.
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Still waiting for that debunking of the NDP/BC Hydro documents. Why do you refuse to supply it?
Laila, only if you play sincere and without ad hominem and not engage in misrepresentation of my comments, then I will do that next weekend. A quick review of the stuff shows where the data has gone wrong. And I never claimed that I am debunking BC Hydro. Another lie from you. My source is BC Hydro and BC Hydro backs up everything I have said so far.
You know, I have a REAL job that I have to attend to. Several reports to write for this week.
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Contractual obligations are still debt… they simply are not included in the provincial debt…. the province may be obligated to pay 35 million over a contract, as an example, but only the amount owing in the current year is considered debt on the books in the year it becomes due.
Ridiculous actually.The way the Liberals consider contractual obligations makes me laugh. Imagine if you tried to tell your bank that your mortgage wasn’t debt, but a ‘contractual obligation’, and so only this years payments could be considered debt because they are due…… but the rest wasn’t debt because it wasn’t due yet!!
http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=contractual+obligations+bc&oq=contractual+obligations+bc&gs_l=hp.3…995.6151.0.6386.34.19.4.10.11.0.184.1823.13j6.19.0…0.0…1c.1.14.psy-ab.JdZH4Amsb48&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.46751780,d.cGE&fp=795d97f364df36f2&biw=1600&bih=806
Take your pick and then tell me that a contractual obligation isn’t a liability. We are obligated to pay XX amount of dollars over XX amount of years…..by a contract. Break that contract and therein lies the liability.
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Laila, you say that a contractual obligation is “debt”. This is why we criticize the leftwing for not understanding economics and just trying to play with words, to fit their rhetoric.
A debt arises when:
1- You receive capital, which you are obligated to pay back.
2- Then you pay interest on the debt at a rate.
A BC Hydro EPA does not do that. CEPs do not advance a loan to the BC Hydro, nor does it charge an interest, for it to appear as a debt for BC Hydro.
As far as “liability” is concerned, I am speaking of the popular usage of this term meaning you are either facing a risk or you owe someone, etc. Neither of this fits BC Hydro’s contractual obligations. There is no risk to BC Hydro, because BC Hydro charges anywhere a non-refundable fee of $1 million to $5 million depending on the size of the project from each CEP in order to issue an EPA to the CEP. If the CEP does not deliver, they forfeit the deposit. No risk to BC Hydro.
And then BC Hydro for every $1,000,000 it pays the CEP, it receives power worth about $1,500,000 from the CEP. So in that sense it is not a liability.
Accounting-wise if BC Hydro books this year’s payable EPA obligation as a liability, then it would also book this years receivables as an asset, and the difference is a profit for BC Hydro. You can’t have it one-way.
So let us not play with words. After all, this is an economics matter and not an English language matter.
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I’ll reply to this in detail in the morning. I have a prior engagement 🙂
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Lets debate on substance, not silly and cheap english language terminology and rhetoric. Are you an English teacher? Have fun.
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Gary, you are grasping at straws.
NERC is a non-profit electricity industry self-regulatory organization. Its mandate is to monitor power producers to make sure that power is provided with reliability and regularity to customers. It makes sure the bulk generating system and transmission grid are functioning properly.
NERC is non-profit.
NERC is overseen by the US Government FERC, by the Canadian Government, and the Mexican Government.
Would you share your conspiracy theory in more detail? Like with citations?
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According to audited financial statements, BC Hydro’s debt for future energy purchases was $7.9 BILLION in 2006, not including Powerex. In 2012, that number had gone up almost seven fold, to $53.1 BILLION, not including Powerex. You will NEED a “Real Job” to pay for it.
What you say is highly misleading and only partially true. And it does not even matter because in return BC Hydro will receive more value than what it paid for.
Only a small part of BC Hydro power purchase obligations is to IPPs. The obligation to buy power from run of river producers in the next 30 years is about $8.7 billion (after taxes paid).
Your $53 billion scare number includes obligations to non-IPP mining companies like Alcan and Teck, and to its own subsidiaries or other government entities such as the Brilliant Dam or Arrow Lakes. Then it includes wind producers, biomass, natural gas thermal, ERG, municipal solid waste burning, biogas. It also includes future obligations to buy natural gas, and lease obligations.
And about 1/2 of EPAs offered to IPPs never get built because of the low prices offered. Your figure includes about 18 projects, some of them huge, which have been terminated, but the EPA still exists.
The hydro obligation to small producers is only $8.7 billion over 30 years, and is a small fraction of BC Hydro’s giant sales to customers.
But does it matter? BC Hydro is receiving clean and green sustainable power at a rate (after taxes paid) that is far below what it can itself produce. For new plants, BC Hydro’s own cost of generation is about 50% to 55% more expensive than new plants by IPPs.
For the $8.7 billion of obligations to IPPs, BC Hydro will receive $13.6 billion in green and clean power. Not a bad deal.
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” however my children have always been my priority and so this has been my form of public service.” WOW! You’ve got your priorities right and I’m not talking CC’s ‘families first’ BS!
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@Gary
“In the six months ended September 2012, BC Hydro purchased 5,589 GWh of electricity from private power producers for $383 million, an average cost of $68,527 per GWh. ”
You are implying that CEPs (clean energy producers) are receiving $68.6 a MWh from BC Hydro. Wrong. Depending on the CEP’s production cost anywhere from $10 to $25 a MWh goes back to government (i.e. the owner of BC Hydro) in the form of property taxes, water rental fees, land fees, first nation royalty and equity, income tax, operational tax, and dividend tax. BC Hydro pays none of these taxes (except for water rental fees). In effect, CEPs are only charging BC Hydro $44 to $59 a MWh. Compare this to the rate BC Hydro charges residences of $93 or the average price of power sold by BCH of $70, and BCH is making a tidy unearned profit off CEP power.
This message board is broken and does not let me post longer replies. I have tried to break them down.
“BC Hydro didn’t need private power since it was generating more than it could sell domestically, despite dumping stored water without running it through generators.”
Wrong. Only three out of the past 11 years has resulted in a surplus of power generation which depends on rainfall, and can vary considerably from year to year. To say that BC Hydro does not need the power is incorrect, because in the other eight years BC Hydro did need the power. In fact for the majority of year, BCH was a net importer of power.
BC Hydro requires long term contract in order to plan for its power aquisition and distribution, and have operational certainty. It cannot depend on the spot market because that market may not be there tomorrow. Therefore depending on rainfall and load, BC Hydro may be short in one year and long in another year, due to natural variances in rainfall (or load factors).
To say that because in the last year of the past decade BC Hydro was a net exporter and thus does not need power, is patently false and misleading because if you average the past decade, BC Hydro has been a net importer. BC Hydro requires long term contracts that balance out with demand. To determine if BCH needs the power, you have to examine the long term, and not a singular year. This should be obvious even to the casual observer.
In fiscal 2012, the rainfall exceeded 11% of the average trend. It was an exceptional and outlying year. In 2011, the rainfall was 12% below average and BC Hydro was a net importer. To selectively single out an outlier and make a sweeping gernalization of that clearly indicates that you have an agenda and that you are uncritically repeating the myths. These myths are being pushed by those who have an interest in milking public property and charging high rates from ratepayers.
In outlying surplus rainfall years, obviously some of the 31 dams of BC Hydro will spill over. However not all regions receive the same surplus and some may even have a deficit of rainfall. You can easily get one dam spilling while the rest having depressed storage levels. That is expected in a complex system of dams, watersheds, and drainages. It is not so simple.
Besides, BC Hydro has determined that it is short on power and has purchased some long-term contracts. If BC Hydro has made an error in its calculations, why is that CEP’s fault?
“Surplus electricity sold through trade markets returned $24,580 per GWh while BC Hydro paid almost three times that unit value for private power. ”
Wrong again in two ways. Washington power spot rate is not $24.6 a MWh. It recently exceeded $40 a MWh. Then you are comparing apples to bananas. Private clean energy producers provide clean, grean, renewable, long-term and firm power to BC Hydro — namely premium top grade power that has no GHG or pollution emissions.
Now compare that to dirty fossil fuel power from Washington and Alberta, which is where BC Hydro sources its imports. Alberta power is more expensive and dertier than Whasington, but let us assume today’s price of $40 a MWh for both. Import power is spot and unreliable — spot is always cheaper than long-term power contracts. So you need to add a premium for that. CEP power is firm, while import power may not be there when it is needed. CEPs pay a penalty to BC Hydro if they over deliver or under deliver the power. Not so with import power. CEP power is clean and green and renewable. Almost all Alberta power is fossil fuel fired and Washington is to a great extent fossil fuel and nuclear. So add a premium for that. Then there is a carbon tax to be added to this power. There are externalities like SOx, Nox, mercury pollution and acid rain for imported power. Not so for CEP power. And most of all, when you import power, you are sending capital abroad and the jobs created will also be sent abroad and not in BC. CEP power creates jobs in BC.
Once you add these equalization and externalities cost to Washington, your superficial $40 a MWh price for Wasgington power easily jumps to $70 to $90 a MWh. Now compare that to true CEP price of $43 to $58 a MWh. It is by far higher.
So you see, the power business is a very complex business and simplistic one liner statements do not reflect the realities.
Finally, when a dam spills over, it is always because of the fact that it did not have sufficient power generation capacity to urilize that lost energy. So even if BC Hydro wanted to capture the spilled energy, it would be able to do so.
Gary as you know I have a real job, so I will have to quit for tonight. But I hope to return tomorrow to reply to the rest of your points, some of which like billions in contractual obligations are inaccurate and misleading.
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The hell with this touchy-feely, Kumbayah, Give Peace A Chance crap.
That’s it, I’ve had it.
That crap was a selfish personal decision by Adrian Dix that’s going to hurt us all.
Adrian Dix: “It is so disrespectful to say that …”blah blah blah
Adrian Dix: “It is, I think, disrespectful to make these kind of …” blah blah blah
Right now I don’t give a damn what Adrian Dix thinks.
The fish farms and big oil companies owe Adrian Dix a very big debt of gratitude.
If Jane Sterk decides to run a Green party candidate in a bi-election they should be sending her a bouquet of roses and a ‘best wishes in the future’ card.
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It’s way past time to get disrespectful.
The general public is not interested in the truth.
The truth does not set them free.
The truth makes them yawn.
The public (and the MSM) want sound bytes, the nastier and juicier the better.
The public doesn’t want to read about child poverty.
The public wants to read about Britney Spears climbing out of a limo wearing no panties.
The public wants to read about Lindsay Lohan in a courtroom with the message “f*ck u” painted on her middle fingernail.
That’s exactly why those stories were on the home pages of the Sun, Province, G&M, etc.
The public wants Jerry Springer (a former politician BTW)
The public wants to see people going at each other with boots flying.
Adrian Dix should have gone into those two debates and politicly ripped Christy Clark’s head off.
Instead, Adrian Dix allowed Christy Clark to laugh at him and kick sand in his face.
Christy Clark: “I love the NDP’s positive campaign here.” Positive means negative, yes means no. I think we’re kind of getting used to that from the NDP.”
Adrian Dix made a selfish decision to allow Christy Clark to continue to do that and now we are all going to pay.
Christy Clark has been using her son as a prop ever since he’s been wearing rubber pants so it’s fair game (and even if it isn’t) to demand to know what her son’s vision for the province is since he obviously had no problem successfully giving his mother instructions to go through a red light.
With a reporter in the car documenting a day in her life?
Saturday Night Live would kill for material like that.
Where was it Dix?
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We need Rambo.
We need an NDP candidate who will happily pose in front of MSM cameras before a local candidates meeting in a bi-election with a tub of hot tar and a sack of feathers.
We need an NDP candidate who will go into a local candidates meeting and hand out copies of the “100 + reasons the BC Liberals must go” and then go over to where Christy Clark is sitting and threaten to shove a copy down her throat.
Anything less than that right now and I’m done with the NDP.
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If any of this sounds a little too nasty for some people here then cry me a river.
A major oil spill will be a hell of a lot nastier I guarantee you.
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Geez, Paul………..why don’t you tell us how you really feel? Everyone’s p.o.’d with the NDP campaign, but instead of crying over spilled milk, we should be sending our criticisms and suggestions to those who need to read them………Adrian Dix, his campaign manager, Brian Topp, and the rest of those bozos.
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@gini – “Geez, Paul………..why don’t you tell us how you really feel?”
– I did
@gini – “we should be sending our criticisms and suggestions to those who need to read them………Adrian Dix …”
– I did
Adrian Dix’s response?
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
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NDP caucus chair Shane Simpson the current MLA for Vancouver-Hastings:
“”It is my view that she’s won a government and she is the premier and she needs to be in the legislature.”
“She is the premier and there needs to be some respect for that if you respect the process.”
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There’s that word “respect” again gini.
Adrian Dix’s response to Shane Simpson’s disgusting and ridiculous remarks?
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
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I’m done
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Oh BTW gini, Christy Clark still hasn’t managed to win a seat in a provincial general election since 2001 (12 years ago) when Gordon Campbell appointed her Deputy Premier.
Why isn’t Dix pointing that out?
She didn’t bother to run in the 2009 provincial general election because she’s not interested in being an MLA.
She wanted to be premier and she won a popularity contest conducted by a small herd of card-carrying BC Liberals.
And NDP MLA Shane Simpson thinks that she should be anointed premier without going through the process of a democratic bi-election?
Maybe NDP MLA Shane Simpson should show some “respect” and resign his seat so that Christy Clark can be anointed in the riding of Vancouver-Hastings unchallenged.
Maybe NDP MLA Shane Simpson should put his money where his mindless mouth is.
I won’t hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
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I actually missed that article but wow. Just wow. http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Christy+Clark+wait+final+riding+count+before+trying+claim+seat/8391379/story.html
“Wherever Clark decides to run, New Democratic Party caucus chair Shane Simpson said his party may consider letting her do so uncontested.
“It is my view that she’s won a government and she is the premier and she needs to be in the legislature,” he said in an interview.
“I think this is a bit unique because we’ve just had an election where she won a mandate,” he added.
“She is the premier and there needs to be some respect for that if you respect the process.”
Well maybe Shane should just step down then and give her his seat!!!
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Shane Simpson is an idiot, as are a few other people such as this guy quoted in the Province on May 19 here: http://www.theprovince.com/news/head+opposition/8406685/story.html
who seemed to think that the Liberals have earned a mandate on behalf of all British Columbians. Since Shane Simpson and the rest of the NDP have just overwhelmingly proven they can’t count chickens, let’s lay out the situation: Only half of half of the people of British Columbia voted Liberal … that is, only 25% of voters. 75% of eligible British Columbia voted otherwise, or were too disgusted/seduced by the media/polls to bother to get out there and represent their opinion.
So considering the results, which is that the media/pollsters basically threw this whole election, and over yet another election to the so-called Liberals, the NDP has a moral and ethical obligation to run the fiercest campaign they can, on behalf of the 75% of British Columbians who did not vote for the Liberals and are OWED the representation of a valid, vigorous and valiant campaign … indeed, right now, the NDP has this one last chance to prove that they can run an election campaign!!
If you took Shane Simpson’s idiocy to its final conclusions, the NDP should never have run a candidate against a premier of a province, that Eby’s election is immoral and unethical and that Shane Simpson is actually calling on Eby to resign? Way to go to supporting your colleague … way to go Shane Simpson, you IDIOT !!!
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Typo correction … FROM So considering the results, which is that the media/pollsters basically threw this whole election, and over yet another election to the so-called Liberals …
TO So considering the results, which is that the media/pollsters basically threw this whole election, and HANDED OVER yet another election to the so-called Liberals …
Regrets for the inaccurate angry typing.
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“Real Job” or “Cris Mack” or whatever name Marky Mark is giving you today, your response to the first set of numbers don’t hold up. Either your Hydro Media Training Manual has it wrong or Hydro’s Quarterly Report of Sept 2012 has it wrong.
From BC Hydro’s quarterly report for the period ended September 30, 2012:
“As a result of the high inflows, the Company sold a significant volume of surplus energy in the six months ended September 30, 2012, an increase of over 4,000 GWh as compared to surplus energy sales in the first six months of fiscal 2012. “The high inflows also resulted in both the Williston and Kinbasket reservoirs spilling substantial volumes of surplus water in the summer of 2012.”.
All figures and facts are from Hydro’s own audit’s.
From the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers 2013 The Hotline – LU 258’s News Magazine
Over the last decade the BC Liberal government has undermined much of what made BC Hydro a dominant utility in North America. In doing so they have undermined our province’s competitive advantage of low-cost, low-carbon electricity.
Ratepayers expect decisions involving BC Hydro will be made in the public interest. Unfortunately, BC Liberal energy policy severely restricts BC Hydro from building new generation, forcing the crown agency to purchase power from private for-profit companies at inflated prices. The policy also prohibits BC Hydro from storing water and purchasing electricity on the open market when prices are low.
This already bad directive was made worse by the Liberals’ “Clean Energy Act,” which formalized an artificial “self-sufficiency” requirement defined by a 50-year drought water level, plus a massive insurance requirement of an additional 3000 GWh. With these directions from the Liberal government, BC Hydro signed long-term contracts for this power at locked-in, take-or-pay rates that are many times higher than the spot market price for freshet power.
We saw the ultimate result of these deals last spring, when we lost at least $180 million dollars with BC Hydro buying private power at a cost averaging $68/MWh, when the average open market price averaged $10/MWh. Worse, much of that seasonal power wasn’t even needed to meet demand. At a time when we were spilling water over the top of our publicly owned Peace Canyon dam, we bought private power at almost seven times higher than the market price.
Now, the gobblygook about “clean power” and saving the planet. Can you answer these questions correctly…
Which holds the greatest percentage of greenhouses gases CO2 or Water Vapour?.
Which increases first CO2 or Temperature?
How do you explain the following statement?
Global temperature has declined since at least 2000 while CO2 has increased. If the IPCC was correct and it is overriding all other mechanisms, the increase should not happen. This is why senior IPCC member Kevin Trenberth said in a leaked email of Wed, 14 Oct 2009, “The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t.”
Laila, I apologize for taking so much room put when some putz with his Training Manual comes on here and starts calling people derogatory names, talking down, like the zealot he is under how many names, I had to respond. Enough said.
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http://rafeonline.com/2013/05/clark-will-break-up-bc-hydro/
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This rabid right-winger Raif, masquerading as an eco-nut, has been spreading such rumours as early as 2001 and he will keep on spreading that as long as their are willful ears. There is no truth to it because it’ll be a huge undertaking and the BC Hydro public unions and management who are taking salaries and benefits exceeding 50% of the market rates, are dead opposed to it.
I mean if you are a union member and you are freeloading on tax payers (where secretaries can make $80,000 a year and skilled wire cutters can make over $300,000 a year, not including pension and expenses), why would you want to privatize and join the rest of us in the REAL economy?
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Honestly, it has nothing to do with the tactics used in the campaign. It has to do with the fact that the NDP is the NDP, and Dix is an archetypal socialist from the left side of the party. People intuitively understand that making multibillion dollar promises while removing the ability to pay for them makes no economic sense at all. The NDP tries to be the Green Party while hoping for a large constituency the center, and it doesn’t work. A campaign based on responsible resource development and heightened enforcement of environmental regulations would have resonated far better with people than “let’s duplicate the results of the federal enquiry and call it ‘made in BC’.”
That and avoiding such silliness as the 90s vintage revival of a “Ministry of Women” or whatever it was supposed to be called. The gender wars are long over.
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Scott, you absolutely nailed it. The real ongoing problem with politics and politicians and the media is that they continue to focus on red herrings and put their efforts into tactics. It is really no wonder that politics rarely attracts the best of the best.
What we ‘clearly’ need (Dix started using the word ‘clearly’ almost as much as Carole James) is to grow the pie. What do we have? We have a large chunk of land full of natural resources. We need to utilize those resources in the smartest most responsible way and the most environmentally sound way.
The fact of the matter is that full blown socialism simply doesn’t work at any levels. The poor need a hand up, not a hand out. The ones who have succeeded through risk, hard work and excellence need to be rewarded.We continue to see how many who have done well ‘give back’ and do it in spades. The poor will regain their dignity if they can be assisted into becoming productive members of society. Let’s get productive. Let’s build infrastructure, trade schools, permit mines, build Site C and open up the north. Let’s also remember that we are Canadians first.
The real revolution in gov’t that I would like to see is in the area of candidate selection. We need to see the best of the best running for office. We need experienced well educated successful civic minded people who are willing to spend several years building our province and our country. We also need to pay the leaders more, much more, in order to attract the best. The Premier should be making at least $ 1 million per year and people in the Cabinet should be getting at least $750 k.
Education isn’t always measured in terms of formal education, but formal education in various specific areas is highly desireable. Hard work and honesty are the trademark characteristics of Jim Pattison who never did finish his degree. He nevertheless is a BC success story and a billionaire philathropist. Does anyone doubt that he could turn BC’s situation around for the better for all?
The real fault in all of this goes to the people. We get the gov’t we deserve. We need to demand more, expect more, and be willing to pay more. The fact of the matter is that if the province were a business, almost none of the candidates would even make the short list. They simply would be not recognized as qualified.
Dix simply does not have the goods. He is unexceptional. A guy like Mike Harcourt is a totally diffferent story. I have always felt nothing but admiration for the man. A smart, educated, experienced, organized man with a great heart. He actually knew what he was doing. The NDP doesn’t need better tactics. They need better people.
Glen Clark has a lot of baggage. Way too much baggage. Having said that, now that he has some significant experience in the real world, grown and developed, and proved to be very very good at what he does, he would in all probability now make a good premier.
good premier.
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Socialism does not work because it eliminates the most important source of REAL democracy – where this source makes you put your money where your mouth is, and holds you accountable to your actions or lack of actions — namely the REAL markets. Markets are the epitome of democracy, where BS is quickly filtered out, where you vote by your brains, not by social rhetorics lodged inside your guts — and the socialists hate it. The socialist’s agenda is to eliminate the markets, and hence democracy.
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Excellently said.
However, please note that environmental standards in BC is the tightest in Canada and maybe the world. You cannot touch and build any piece of non-municipal land without having to obtain upwards of 50 permits, authorizations, licenses, approvals, and certificates.
Every little thing has been controlled. Can you cite me an example that is not?
If you want to legally cut trees in your backyard, you will have to commission a $30,000 consultancy study to check for Goshawks, Murrelets, Nighthawks, Screech Owls, and another $20,000 to certify that there is no community of endangered vegetation that will be harmed. Then you will have to wait 6 mos. to 12 years, while the bureaucrat forms his/her commissions etc. to study your backyard. Lots of good paying jobs available in the government if you like doing this kind of stuff. And you get to pay for their 30% above-market salaries, while they try to stop you.
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Thanks for the link, ‘r’! I read Rafe’s blogs often and his predictions are always bang on.
I agree with everything you said, Laila. You know who I think the NDP needs? Another young, fiery Dave Barrett! I’m presently reading a book by Geoff Meggs and Rod Mickelburgh, entitled “The Art of the Impossible”. It’s bringing back a lot of memories from the 70s. (I’m also listening to ‘Stayin’ Alive’, by the BeeGees……….everything fits!)
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Ahhh, people living under an overpass don’t shit in a shoe box. They shit any where.
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As predicted, the knives are out for Dix. He can run but he can’t hide. It’s gonna be absolutely vicious. It really says a lot about the NDP.
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A very good interview as to how and why we are in the deep financial hole of Canada finds itself in. If the solution offered were implemented actual social justice could be realized rather than social injustice being inflicted through so called austerity. I’m glad 78% or so of the voters in BC rejected the Liberals who therefore have no mandated authority.
http://humanrightsdefendersleague.ca/paul-hellyer/
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Only 30% of the electorate voted for one of three non-Liberal party. Not 78%.
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The other 48% saw the ruse and voted with their feet and won the election by having more % of the voters(eligible ones) than any of the sanctioned parties. If it was a true democracy their would need to be another election with new candidates as none won a majority of the eligible vote. If none of the above were included on the ballot all the trough feeders would be looking for a real job.
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Get a life Rick. The 48% no shows will statistically vote the same as the show ups with 99.99% certainty. It is called mathematics.
Anyone could run for this election, and any party can participate. That is true democracy.
What you are asking is to disqualify those who were elected by a plurality or a majority, and are obviously the most popular candidates, because some people didn’t bother to vote? You’ld never say this if Adrian had won.
Make it an obligation to vote. Will not change the results.
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I like my life not sucking at the public trough just fine thank you. I don’t care who in the corporate political world, be it Liberal, Green, NDP, or whatever they chose to name themselves won, not, as they will all tow the cabal bankster gangster line. Sounds like your trough feeding has blinded you to the truth. I guess you figure the theft of BCRail and subsequent theft of $6million by the patsies facilitated by none other than the thieves themselves is to be forgiven. Not ’til all the criminals are behind bars where they belong.
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Here is an example of a contract awarded to Telus:
http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2009-2013/2011LCITZ0015-000799.htm
If it were for 30 years, it would be a $3 billion obligation by the province. That is almost half of the obligation to hydro IPPs.
How is it that you guys never object to such deals, but only object when small companies in an extremely competitive environment manage to get comparatively small contracts to deliver power which is worth far more than the value in the contract?
I know why. It is envy. You think that since it rains freely, that a hydro project is a windfall generating cash, and IPPs are getting disgustingly rich. Show me one person that has gotten rich in the IPP industry. The most successful person is Donald McInnis, who probably made $3 million. That is how much a lot of people make on a big house just doing nothing. 50% of the industry goes broke after a while.
Do you have any ideas what risks are involved and how difficult it is to raise finance? Of course you don’t. Leftwingers believe there is no such thing as capital to raise because capital has no value and all value is in labor, and that goods grow on trees.
If you think it is so easy, why don’t you participate in BC Hydro’s call for power? I know why you can’t. You don’t have the skills, neither you want to do the hard work, nor you will have any chance competing with 63 other companies for the 13 projects accepted.
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Wow! I had no idea those CEP folks had it so rough. All that hard work and high risk just to sell a product that is worth far more than they’re getting for it just seems silly. And especially so with the odds being that there’s a 50% chance of going broke. No wonder it’s hard to raise capital with a record like that. With it being that bad I can’t understand why there would be so many lining up to get in on it. Something doesn’t add up.
Also makes me wonder why Synex would purchase 10% of RVPC shares for a million dollars in cash with option to buy another 10% for the same amount. It’s just a piddly little 3.6mw operation so why would they even bother?
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KenC – good questions. Green energy produced by Clean Energy Producers are 50% to 55% cheaper than BC Hydro’s cost for Site C.
However, BC Hydro has a monopoly in this province. It is not possible for a CEP to sell power to another entity whether in BC or as export.
So what happens is that when BC Hydro sets up a tender, a large number of producers participate and only some of them manage to get a contract. In the last Call, 63 projects were submitted to BC Hydro and only 22 get EPAs. In this extremely competitive tender, producers cut their prices to the very minimum possible because they know the can’t sell their product to any other buyer. The winners must now make a depost if $1 million to $2 million with BC Hydro depending on the size of the project. The 2/3 majority that do not get contracts often go out of business because they are unable to function with no prospects and the next tender may not happen for a very very long time. Of those who receive contracts, on the average 1/2 cannot perform to their contract because of the low price they have bid and lose their non-refundable deposit, and again fold as a business.
So you see, BC Hydro due to its monopoly powers assures that it receives CEP power at dirt cheap lowest possible prices, and the CEP does not have the option to go elsewhere.
Generally it is expected that a clean energy project to return 10% on the capital invested after all costs are taken into account. This is the normative return in any successful business. CEPs cut their price so low that they hit this limit. Anything less than that does not justify the risks being taken.
Those 1/3 that receive contracts now need to raise $3 million to evaluate the creek and assure that there will be no harm to fish. This is the environmental assessment part.
Just like other producers, CEPs have certain skills, expertise, experience and knowhow that allows them to enter into this line of production. Some enter it to be a service to the community and the province to generate GHG reducing clean and green energy. Others find pride in producing a good that is 40% cheaper than a behemoth BC Hydro can produce, and thus allowing ratepayers to save more of their hard earned money. For yet others they find the work a joyful challenge. And some they want to have a job, and for investors it is the opportunity to get 10% a year on your investment, which by far is better than the bank rates — but of course there is the huge risk that your project may get cancelled and your money never returned.
I know that for leftists this is all a mystery because leftists have little understanding of how production happens or the economics of it, and think that a successful business means they have to rob the people and feed from the trough.
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Sorry I meant to say CEP power is 40% cheaper than BC Hydro Site C which is 50% to 55% more expensive than CEP power.
RVPC is an older plant (Ptarmigan) and probably it is in need of some engineering work, and the price is quite cheap. Probably they received a contract to upgrade or maintain the plant, and in lieu they receive shares. I don’t think Synex would have a cash balance to pay $1 million. Synex specializes in very small plants, generally less than 5 MW and they have built a few. You can see their stock has not changed. They are an engineering firm (Sigma) and can nicely put up with the relative complexities of small plants, given their size, which make them too costly for larger companies. Operating a 5 MW plant is as difficult as a 50 MW plant. So naturally the billion dollar companies have no interest in small plants and the price tag for a small plant is relatively cheap and Sigma specializes in that.
Whether this investment was advisable, it is hard to tell without a lot more details. If they had to pay all cash, then it is time to scratch ones head. So far Synex has a pretty good reputation (unlike the other one).
Please do me a favor and explain to the likes of Laila that if CEP’s were making a ton of money (she thinks the rain is free, so that must be the case) then their stock price would be astronomic. Look at Plutonic — started at 2, went to 8, and now is under 1 and was taken over. Their 3rd and 4th projects are in limbo, and gathering dust. Their first two projects were very marginal and had huge cost overruns. Look at ROR – 6 cents a share, and they are building a 25 MW plant. Synex has been at 50 cents as far back as I can remember.
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According to Synex themselves they did indeed pay $1 million in cash:
“The shares of RVPC were acquired from existing shareholders through a cash payment of $1 million and the Company has an option to acquire up to a further 10% of the issued and outstanding shares of RVPC for a further cash payment of up to $1 million on or before June 15, 2012.”
I know the Ptarmigan site well as I visit it often and have done so well before there was a power plant in operation. If this site is an example of how CEP’s operate then I have to wonder what the others look like. It seems to me if the producers of this type of energy want to bill themselves as clean they should at least make an effort to ensure their sites are clean. I guess “out of sight, out of mind” comes into play with a lot of them. Oh well, pay the environmental fines and get on with business.
“Some enter it to be a service to the community and the province to generate GHG reducing clean and green energy.” Interesting. It makes them sound like soshalists 😉
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I found this to be an interesting read.
Click to access BCgeneratingSystem.pdf
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Kudos to “Someone with a Real Job”. I must say that I have been impressed as I have read your posts and learned a lot of things that I did not know. What you have also done is “flushed out” the socialists. They quickly attack the messenger when they don’t like the message.
Now, I have a question for you. What is your opinion in regards to Site C? My take is that we need more power now and will need a lot more in the future as the north is developed. My take is that we in BC would not be enjoying the quality of life that we now have if the dams and the power plants had never been built.
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Please, let’s have the truth. It is a recorded fact that for more than four decades Hydro has lusted to build new generation beyond the real needs of BC customers. Mr. Bonner and Mr. Olson both admitted to having overbuilt the generation capacity during their tenure. This was also formally recognized by the then politically independent BCUC. Should folks care to reflect on the many so called electricity forecasts presented by Hydro since the 1980s in every instance this same folly has been presented.
Hydro builds it demand outlook from three customer classes. The first two, residential and commercial are pure vanilla extensions of past history coupled with population and economy extensions from independent sources. The Director in charge of this part of the outlook publicly discloses that he accommodates the influences of conservation by customers (the substitution effect) but as yet their unit does not introduce any switching consequence from electrically powered vehicles. The third component to the “forecast” is heavy industrial. This is where Hydro managers try to introduce new industrial demand based upon conversations with project developers. By direct question to Mr. Bell he declined to show Hydro had firm contracts with his short list of would be customers nor did he wish to say about pricing.
The person in charge of making the Hydro forecast confirmed in a public meeting a year ago, in Victoria, that new IPP energy would cost Hydro between $100 and $130.
What that all means is Hydro’s use for new generation is an expensive gamble and for the most part that is the reason the BCUC has a diminished role in protecting the public from the “griffters” populating the IPP space in BC.
When the public did have the chance at looking at an IPP contract (Duke Point) the net present value of the contract was $500 million. The developer gave in evidence that the cost to build would be $300 million. The contract was for a gas generation plant and the total risk of input energy costs were to be pasted through to Hydro. In a word the IPP operator took zero market risk for a $200 million front end unearned bonus. I suspect most of the IPP contracts that are now secret would turn out looking much the same. Private interests free riding on the credit worthiness of the BC taxpayers and understandably are trying to extend their time at the “trough”.
More latter. Erik
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Erik, stop making numbers up and try to be honest and nonpartisan in your articles.
The latest round of EPA awards was at $101.7 a MWh, for hydro projects. You can see it on the BC Hydro website, under “Report on the CPC”. So stop lying that it will cost up to $130 when the data is already out there, and you have seen it.
Furthermore, you have to SUBTRACT TAXES from this figure. IPPs on the CPC will be paying $35 to $42 a MWh in seven or eight different form of taxes to five level of government.
Why are you not subtracting this from the price? Are you trying to mislead people?
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And Erik Anderson, it is not $53.1 billion or $60 billion or $90 billion of contractual obligations that BC Hydro holds. You are wrong and deliberately misleading again.
If you examine one-by-one each EPA offered to the 35 small hydro IPPs in operation, and the 22 other small hydros that are coming online, you will see that the obligation by BC Hydro is only $7.8 billion (by which BC Hydro receives power worth more than $12 billion).
The $53.1 billion figure by BC Hydro includes payments for thermal power, for power generated by other crown corporations and BC Hydro subsidiaries, lease commitments, and forward gas contracts.
BC Hydro’s obligation to hydro IPPs is only $7.8 billion.
I challenge you to prove me wrong. And I challenge you to do a one-by-one calculation.
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Domestic electricity consumption increased 3% in GWh from 2011 to 2012. And you still think we dont need power? What about all the LNG plants and mines coming online in the next 5 years?
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Someone,I’ve been incredibly patient with your deflections,rudeness and continued refusal to provide the debunking of the links I sent you. Instead you resorted to nearly libelous remarks on the character of a widely respected economist, hiding under the cover of your pseudonym. Clearly you don’t feel confidant in speaking your truth with your name, as most do here,and I know who many of those who do not. Erik Anderson is very well respected and his information is always bang on – he has communicated with the former Auditor General John Doyle on many occasions,for clarifications and to confirm information or bring it to his attention. This government has a habit of keeping vital information away from not only the public,but from anyone else who attempts to find the truth.
You made this statement: ” My interest is to honestly compete in the marketplace and offer a product cheaper than others and thus be of service to my community and the “sheeple”. I provide my power 50% to 55% cheaper to BC Hydro than its own Site C. I create a lot of wealth for the “sheeple”.” yet denied being anything other than a consulting hydrologist on projects when pressed.
You made this statement: ” You leftwingers believe people are sheeple and can’t see the lies in NDP’s flyers. Any wonder you are losers?I will debunk the NDP flyers in due course.”
Yet refused to debunk the documents that came from BC Hydro themselves, actual documents… and resorted to lines like this when I asked you to be professional and stick to facts rather than your venomous attacks on the hordes of socialists threatening your IPP way of life, yet you seem to forget that everyone here can go back and see every comment you’ve made and you are the only one resorting to low blows… in fact this reminded me so much of one Liberal/Con pundit who,when pressed for facts rather than unfounded blathering statements,resorts to claims of being attacked and abused rather than simply answering the damn questions directly : ” Laila, there is no point of debating with an insincere or dishonest person. One more of these blows below the belt, and I am out of here.”
I’ve not been dishonest here anywhere,nor insincere. What I have been is exceptionally tolerant in giving you ample opportunity to debunk all of the information contained in the following links, which you repeatedly have refused to do. Your inability to provide the debunking you have promised shows that you are the insincere and dishonest one, Someone, not me.
Should you wish to provide the promised contradictory evidence that debunks the following links,based on documents provided by BC Hydro, as you promised….I will reinstate your commenting ability. You may email your debunking via my contact page. By failing to do so on your own accord,and continuing baseless attacks on other commenters and writers, you’ve shown your true motivation is to do nothing but act like the most reviled of internet scourges: the common troll.
http://www.bcndp.ca/newsroom/bc-hydro-documents-show-massive-surplus-expensive-power
Click to access BC_Hydro_documents_-_surplus_power_and_cost_to_BC.pdf
Click to access BC_Hydro_excess_power_and_cost_to_BC_-_4-year_total.pdf
http://thecanadian.org/component/k2/itemlist/user/73-erikandersen – here Erik has provided extensive references for his column.
Furthermore, a concerned reader sent this in for your examination:
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Erik here again.
The evidence from Hydro’s annual reports shows the global effect of embracing the IPP narrative.
For fiscal 2000 toatal assets were $11,596 B; Total liabilities were $10,361 B; Total revenues were $3,457 B and electricity sold to BC only customers was 48,431 GWhrs. By fiscal 2012 Total assets were shown to be $21,047 B or 81% greater; Total liabilities were$10,361 in 2000 but by 2012 they were 17,849, plus 72%; Total annual revenues in 2000 $3,547 B and by 2012 were $4,684 B ,up 35%; now the elephant in the room our Government and Hydro deliberately ignored, Total domestic demand (BC only) went from 48,431 GWHrs in 2000 to 52,197 GWHrs in 2012, a change of 7.8%.
There was nothing of a third party and credible nature that could excuse this horrible missus of the public’s trust in either the directing minds in cabinet or their place men at Hydro. By every bit of evidence the policies affecting Hydro have created a financial monster that everyone associated with the industry is now trying to cover up or change the narrative. Having been employed in both the private and public sectors as an economist I would be mortified having my name attached to this deliberate scheme to transfer unearned wealth from the public to private interests.
Cheers leaders of the IPP sector do not wish to accept that Hydro’s Regulatory Asset Accounts are in fact IOUs yet to be paid by Hydro customers. The latest report indicates these now total over $4 B and the Auditor General reported an expectation of even more in his report of a year ago. Should there be an attempt to increase rates in BC to get to a cash break-even we would all see rates go up by +35%. This is because the Government and Hydro acted on the fiction of needing more generation in BC.
Hydro is a natural monopoly which in turn means the public get real economic value when a public collective is the vehicle to build and operate such a system. This equally applies to public roads, bridges, sewer and water systems and so on. It is precisely because Hydro is a monopoly that projects that would never attract investors are funded. IPPs and the like would never happen when the asset is seriously fixed and energy produced is to be sold on the open market.
Observations about Hydro’s total liabilities, for the most part in the recent election, are based upon the fiction of $17 B. The BC auditor General has specifically identified “contingencies and contractual obligations”, which are over and above the $70 B of total liabilities the government reported a year ago, at $96.4 B. Various estimates have been made about what portion IPP contracts account for in this total. It is generally held that Hydro’s portion of what is now probably $100 B is between $50 B and $75 B. I hope there are none of those out there who want to take issue with the AG’s reports. It sure looks to this observer that the Hydro Board managed to increase liabilities by over 5 times since 2000 while domestic need increased by less than 10%. Should folks want to pitch the idea that massive investment was needed to repair the existing system please don’t. I have already asked an insider to say on the record that previous management had been so poor as to create this rehabilitation need and he refused. Not that surprising actually as his doing so would put his “rice bowl” at risk.
It is not clear what will cause the fiscal penny to drop in BC but drop it will. If the “credit window” has not already been closed (think financing the new Port Mann bridge) it will happen shortly. Two years ago S&P publicly told the provinces to do several things to avoid credit downgrades. First off was to slow down or stop taking on new debt. The BC government and Hydro appeared not to hear or to ignore the caution. Secondly S&P directed the provinces to increase revenues. That is probably why we got the HST. The government of BC has presented the fiction that it can borrow us into prosperity, a financial model I have yet to see an example of it working. Thirdly the S&P folks directly told the provinces to hold down budgets for health care and education. This the government of BC has done and why the public has been angry.
All party leaders in the recent election knew this material because they received personal letters from myself (well annotated with public document references). Why this information was withheld from public discussion you draw your own conclusion or ask them yourselves.
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Erik, why don’t you answer my questions posed above rather than copying and pasting stuff that are rhetorical, irrelevant and questionable?
Your number on BC Hydro contractual obligation to IPPs is bogus. BC Hydro’s obligation to hydro IPPs, by which is receives far more valuable power, is $7.8 billion over 30 years. Now compare that to the government’s obligation to Telus to provide telephone service to the government, whihc is $3.0 billion over 30 years.
Your number is bogus Erik, because it includes everything and the kitchen sink and hydro IPPs obligation over 30 years is only $7.8 billion, compared to the Province’s obligations to all, over 30 years, which would be about $200 billion.
But then BC Hydro makes substantial profit from IPP power.
But why do you hate IPPs who are doing one heck of a service to the citizens by selling them cheap power?
Are you evading answering questions?
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It’s even on the 6 oclock news now. The media is gearing up. Boy do they love a story. They are going to milk this one.
The KNIVES are definitely out for Dix.
Even his long term ‘friends’ are publicly turning on him. It’s as if the NDP has a manaical blood lust that will only be satiated through a frenzied attack on their now vulnerable leader. Nothing short of disembowelment will do. Kicking a man while he is down is the NDP way. If only Dix had run a vicious campagn, continually gone for the jugular, done absolutely whatever it took and more to take down Christy Clark and the hated Liberals. If only.
Now he must pay the price. Lessons must be learned. This must never happen again. Keep reading The Art of War. Sling the mud with a vengeance. The new leader better be ready to get deep in the mud and go wildcat. Tactics are everything. Tactics are the key. Tactics win elections. Tactics, hard ball, downright vicious tactics. Spin, twist, fabricate, smear, promise your heads off, just get the job done.
Analysis, analysis, analysis. What could have been done better? When was the election lost? What should and shouldn’t have Dix said and left unsaid, done and left undone? All that money left on the table. It was within the grasp. The trough was in sight. Salivating. Yes, salivating. Sooo close. But.
Yes Siree, times they are a changing. Change, yes change, one practical slice at a time. If Dix were more photogenic, he could possibly even star in his own movie. Ya know, kinda like a real job, sort of. But no, he’s not gonna be in any more starring roles. Crank up the slaughter house. Fire up the barbee. He’s done like dinner.
There is another way, however, of looking at things. I said it before. I will say it again. The NDP simply do not have the goods, let alone the trust of the people, and all your squealing like stuck pigs and your belly aching ain’t gonna change that. You folks ought to give up on the idea of living off other people’s money and get yourself some real jobs. Now that’s one tactic that might actually bring some real returns.
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I can assure you Chris, that no one here is living off other people’s money.Among the readers of this blog are many politicians of every stripe,high level government bureacrats, executives and CEO’s of many international corporations, entrepreneurs etc etc….as well as retired seniors,people on disability, teachers,small business owners,truck drivers etc etc….
I’m not an NDP member, never have been.A read through this blog, the Huffington Post, and my column for 24Hrs will show that I’ve been just as critical of the NDP as the Liberals.And had the NDP gotten into government,they would have been equally the target of my research and investigations.
The difference is that over the years I have written this blog,I’ve seen a complete disregard for truth,transparency and accountability in the Liberal government,moreso than the typical level one cynical enough comes to expect goes with the territory.I’ve even written on one story that government behavior bordered on criminal with altered documents and destroyed documents in order to change the appearance of a bidder so they could award a contract to someone else. That ended up in a ten year court battle and cost the taxpayers an extraordinary amount of money and they lost trying to defend their horribly egregious behavior.
I have no problem with people making money,after all, money makes the world go round. But I do have a problem with corrupt and unethical government behavior, which has become so pervasive among the Liberal government.
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Hmmmm, Chris, speaking of knives in the backs of leaders……forgetting the 801 Club already are we? How convienient.
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Im just curious .
Does Mr Hydrologist aka ; “Someone with a real job” actually HAVE a job?
He/she seems to hang out here with hours to spend, informing, insulting and generally defending BC Hydro……..
Lets see what the next year or two brings in the future of BC Hydro shall we?
I personally think it will be sold off and part of the Liberal “master plan” to privatize everything.
Cue , “someone with a real job” multi paragraphed response…….three…..two……one………
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Someone with a job spent 16 hours in one day writing responses, reading others and monitoring for replies.
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Lol I knew it. I knew all along what scums you and the rest of the ethics-less horde you have here are.
First dishonesty and lies, then outright censorship.
Laila, you are a douchebag, and you know it very well. And then you complain why didnt the sheeple vote for your buddies freeloading on society? No ethics, and then no brains.
I dare you to publish my posts. Naw, too chicken.
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Go back and read my last post.End of story.
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A real douchebag — like most socialists, aintcha?
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